Not quite the same, but I needed oxygen on a flight from Oz to Hawaii. I had prepaid in advance for the oxegen, and everything was supposed to be ready. When I got on the plane, they didn't know where it was. When they found it, and I sat down, I was miles away from my friends. Then, it turns out, the seat the tank was on, as well as the seat I was on were for someone else. So that person had to be moved. i was made fel like a complete idiot. Then, I asked if I could go to sleep, and would they mind changing the tank half way through, when it was due to run out. On every other flight this was no problem, as it was routine to check the tank every 15 minutes anyway, but I felt I should remind them gently on this flight as they didn't particular seem interested in me. I fell asleep, and woke up a few hours later gasping. I felt terrible, really struggling and very sick. I checked the tank, and sure enough it was empty. I asked for it to be replaced, but was told that as we were nearly at Hawaii, there was no point. I spent the last hour feeling really ill and panting. When we got off the plane, I ended up being very sick, vomitting and not being able to walk. My friends had to find me a wheelchair, with no help from the flight attendants, who walked past me, and get me into it. After about half an hour in the open air, I recovered quickly. I was absolutly appalled but the treatment I recieved. People with medical needs, esoecially non-obvious ones like mine, are treated like muck.

I'm having a hard time deciding whether this decision (and what happened to Marz) are "business" decisions or just a lack of caring for your fellow human beings. Either way, it's sickening. THIS is the kind of thing that should make the front page of the newspaper. We have every right to know what companies couldn't care less about us after they have our money.

Wow...wow.





***DISCLAIMER*** I'm a nurse

Unless you are unconscious, never ever EVER put your health care in the hands of another person. Just my 1/2 cent.

This is scary. There was time, during a window of 10 to 20 years ago when I had to travel quite a bit for business and American was our carrier of choice (because we were based in Dallas and DFW is a huge American hub, as well as American headquarters). During that time, they were a pretty good airlines and I rarely had a complaint. Now I'm not so sure. The airlines are really hurting these days, but to not have a strict, no-fail system of regularly checking and testing life saving equipment on board every plane is criminal. They're going to have to pay through the nose for this one.

Heh. True.

However, we must agree that with her health problems, (heart), I am going to assume that no amount of oxygen was going to save her. Stuff was happening with her before she ever got short of breath.

Desir had complained of not feeling well and being very thirsty on the Friday flight from Port-au-Prince after she ate a meal, according to Antonio Oliver, a cousin who was traveling with her and her brother Joel Desir. A flight attendant gave her water, he said.

Everyone thinks that an automatic defibrillator is the be all save all. Can it save lives? Yes.

If you are 20,000 feet in the air and can't land for the follow up drugs, therapy, etc to supress what is going on that you are getting shocked for, one's chances for survival decrease significantly.

It isn't like a shot where we yell "clear!" shock you and you wake up and thank us. Medicine must be administered to keep your heart from fibrillating again, or guess what? You get another shock.

And WHEN we shock, we are essentially stopping, NOT starting your heart. We do this in the hopes that the hearts natural pacemaker, the SA node will kick in, because we got rid of the rhythm that was deadly.

If your SA node DOESN'T kick in, we can fix that too, for a bit anyways....it's an external pacer. Even then you are in dire straits, to say the least.

See exerpt from AED

An automated external defibrillator is used in cases of life threatening cardiac arrhythmias which have led, to cardiac arrest. The rhythms the device will treat are usually limited to:

Ventricular fibrillation (shortened to VF or V-Fib)

Pulseless Ventricular tachycardia (shortened to VT or V-Tach)[1]

AEDs, as with all defibrillators, are not designed to shock asystole ('flat line' patterns) as this will not have a positive clinical outcome. The asystolic patient only has a chance of survival if, through a combination of CPR and cardiac stimulant drugs, one of the shockable rhythms can be established, which makes it imperative for CPR to be carried out by any lay rescuer prior to the arrival of a defibrillator.

In each of the two types of shockable cardiac arrhythmia, the heart is in activity, yet in an unusual pattern which can be life-threatening if left uncorrected. In ventricular fibrillation, the electrical activity of the heart becomes chaotic, preventing the ventricle from effectively pumping blood. In ventricular tachycardia, the heart beats too fast to effectively pump blood. Ultimately, ventricular tachycardia leads to ventricular fibrillation. The fibrillation in the heart decreases over time, and will eventually reach asystole.

Uncorrected, these cardiac conditions rapidly lead to irreversible brain damage and death. After approximately three minutes, irreversible brain/tissue damage may begin to occur. For every minute that a person in cardiac arrest goes without being successfully treated (by defibrillation), the chance of survival decreases by 10 percent.

Yeah, I'm aware that the defibrillator is not a magic bullet. I'm concerned that when they did attempt to use it, the article says that it malfuntioned. The whole reason for having them on board is to buy time while the pilot diverts to the nearest airfield where, according to the plan, a trained EMS will be waiting with the necessary drugs and equipment to save the life. While it's entirely possible that the defibrillator had been recently tested, the fact that more than one oxygen bottle on board was empty raises very serious concerns and doubts. One case of faulty equipment, tough luck. three cases (at least) of faulty equipment, major systemic problems.

And the last time I checked a drink of water, supplemental O2, and external defibrillation will not save a person in end stage congestive heart failure


I'm not saying American airlines isn't in the wrong, I'm just sayin...

Yeah! That's what I was trying to say!

I agree with you wholeheartedly. I must say that batteries do die in those things very quickly and we always carried a spare charged one for our 24 hr stint.

There are alot of things we don't know. Was she even in a shockable rhythm? If she wasn't, that AED wouldn't have helped her at all.

How close were they to a place they could land?

Why in the heck was she traveling if she was so ill in the first place?? She brought NO O2 with her and was suddenly short of breath? Bad sign and generally shortness of breath is a symptom of something worse happening internally.

Desir was put on the floor, and a nurse tried CPR, to no avail, Oliver said. A "box," possibly a defibrillator, also was applied but didn't function effectively, he said.

I am assuming that John Q public thinks that when the box is attached to someone, we yell clear and shock you. It is ALL that box does. So if John Q public does not see the shock, they would assume it isn't working properly.

Dunno.

I wonder why didn't they use an emergency drop-down mask to give her oxygen? Can they be manually deployed? The excessive thirst and shortness of breath are both signs of dangerously high blood sugar levels..it sounds like she might have been diabetic (and in ketoacidosis) rather than experiencing heart failure.. Either way, the airlines was woefully negligent..so tragic.

I understand what you are saying, and I believe you are right. My father has had heart/lung problems for about 15 years, and I had a scare myself a few years ago (turned out to be nuisance PVCs) so I've done quite a bit of research on the matter. Doctors start to tell me things in laymen's terms and I will usually ask them a question, throwing in a term like sinus rhythm so we can get down to business.

Anyway, if she WAS suffering from CHF, none of what she asked for would have done her much good, and the water may have even harmed her, but to me, the fact is they didn't KNOW that, and they didn't seem to care either way.

Man, I totally agree with you. I did drop the ball on the flight, but normally I know exactly what's going on. I have often had to stop doctors and nurses from giving me medications that I can't have. Or having to show nurses how to access s device I have in my chest (I have a big story about that) and I always keep on top of my own meds and care when I'm in hospital. But that's hard to do. I'm lucky that my consultants allow me to be mostly in charge of my care. And they consult me on every step. But some people might not have the knowledge or the confidence to stand up to the professionals.

Can't ill people travel?
As for her having no oxygen, do you know how much it costs to get the tanks? It's a LOT of money. While I do agree with you that she should really have been better prepared for the flight, I can also see why she might not have had O2 with her. When I travelled, I had about 12 flights in about a month. I could only afford O2 on 4 of these flights. I had to take a risk. I arranged the O2 for the longer of my flights, but not all of them. In some of the flights were I had the O2 I didn't need it, on others I was glad to have it. I wished I wasted money on O2 on some of my flights, but it was money well spent on others. Looking back, I only needed it on 2 of my flights really, and on one of the flights I didn't have it. But I couldn't know that, so had to take a calculated risk. As for taking your own O2 on board. No way! Not when the airlines can make money from your illness!

Unfortunately, ever since 9/11, we get in our own way sometimes. Many airlines will not allow you to bring your oxygen bottles on board. Too big a security risk. You can have all the doctors notes and certificates you want but too bad. If you need an O2 bottle, tough s**t. Take the train.

You're right. There's no certainty that any of those would have saved her. She may have died whether everything worked as intended or not.

But what if that equipment would have saved her? If not her, maybe someone else. But how do we know? They didn't maintain their equipment.

I guess my point is, if you're going to go through the process and expense of buying the equipment and installing it, why wouldn't you make sure it was maintained routinely and tested regularly? Take the stuff off the planes, inform the public and then you remove the threat of litigation. I don't believe the FAA requires airlines to have O2 bottles (other than the drop down masks in case of depressurization) or defibrillators. American Airlines, while entirely possible that this passenger might have had an untreatable problem, placed themselves in this position.

Didn't say ill people cannot travel. But maybe she shouldn't have or been better prepared. I realize it costs alot of money for those tanks, but the very first link in the chain of survival starts with herself. She may have chose to risk it as well, just as you did.

Tanks can leak and equipment malfunctions.

I agree. The tanks should be checked daily. We checked ours every shift.

However, the jury is out with me that the AED didn't function properly. If someone is assuming it "didn't work" because she didn't get shocked, then they don't know squat about shockable rhythms or what that box is intended for!

I was a flight attendant for many years for a different major airline. It is a flight attendants duty to preflight ALL emergency equipment before the flight even boards. The fact that they left with two empty bottles of portable o2 (that is on the plane for the flight attendants in an emergency) is most certainly the fault of the flight attendant(s). Of course just because those bottles are meant to be for flight attendants does not mean they can not use them in case of an emergency with a passenger.

The o2 in the overhead masks are used for depressurization, not medical treatment.

The fact that they continued on to JFK with a dead body on board is as disturbing as the whole event to me.