The Hindu religion is pretty cool as far as religions go, but any civilized Indian can tell you that the caste system is just a bad idea.

I can't even begin to imagine living in a system that defines your entire life based on the "crap shoot" of birth. I have to wonder how many people get "buried" in the system, never having a chance because of the social circle they were born in.

Just because the Hindu explicitly state it doesn't mean that doesn't happen everywhere. Poverty tends to beget poverty and while there are more opportunities in better developed nations to move up a little, there is still a class system and it's very hard to move between them.

Sorry I call bullsh*t. You can talk all day about how the Western civilization has class distinction based on income, but we do not come anywhere near this:

"If a higher caste Hindu is touched by, or even had a Dalit's shadow fall across them, they consider themselves to be polluted and have to go through a rigorous series of rituals to be cleansed."

The sooner people drop this caste system sh*t the better off we will all be.

It is possible to move between classes. All it takes is ambition and work.

The only part of that which carries some truth is people often times learn behavior from their parents. They see their parents living on welfare and "disability", never trying to do better, just living off of other people and they do the same thing and then teach their children the same behavior.

Still it doesn't have to be that way and many times it isn't. Any case that isn't a sign of any sort of class system but of human behavior.

It is also easy to cross classes the other way. There are vast number of cases of the children of wealthy parents losing it all or at least losing a large percentage of the family income.

You can call whatever you want, I don't need that kind of language in the morning. Anyway, no, we don't throw our poor onto burning embers but we don't give them a chance to excell either and you said "I can't even begin to imagine living in a system that defines your entire life based on the "crap shoot" of birth." but that is how we live it just isn't as terrorizing for us.

There was also this story

'Untouchable' woman dies after Indian medics refuse treatment

Thu Apr 24, 1:08 PM ET

An "untouchable" woman who gave birth outside an Indian hospital because doctors would not treat her died Thursday, a day after her baby, officials admitted.

The newborn boy of Maya Devi, 28, died Wednesday due to lack of medical help minutes after being born outside the maternity wing of Kanpur Medical College in northern Uttar Pradesh state.

Devi was only put in intensive care after giving birth but she died of a heart attack early Thursday morning.

Several doctors, including the hospital's chief medical superintendent, had refused to touch her or provide medical care as she delivered her baby, the Press Trust of India reported.

Devi was a Dalit, or "untouchable", a group at the bottom of the caste social ladder who have long been ostracised and forced into menial professions despite laws banning discrimination. Many high-class Hindus fear coming into contact with them.

Dr Kiran Pandey, head of gynaecology at the hospital, told AFP she was an hour's drive away in state capital Lucknow at the time and rushed back.

"We provided her the best medicines and treatment but she succumbed to two cardiac arrests," Pandey said.

College principle Anand Swaroop has ordered an inquiry, as has a district magistrate.

The state's chief minister, Mayawati, who won elections last year, has ordered the doctors to be suspended and demanded an investigation.

I understand what you're trying to say but it really isn't that easy. Many school systems get their funding from property taxes and from the surrounding community. If you live in a poor community your school gets less money even with government funding and less money makes a difference. There are a lot of programs in place to try and allow these schools to gain better access to good teachers, up to date materials and extra curriculars, but an inner city school education generally doesn't touch a suburband, high class school system.

Okay don't want to offend your delicate ears so I'll just add that you are completely mistaken.

People have every chance to excel - if they want to take the chance. There is nothing holding them back from a class point of view.

Still some will claim that to make themselves feel better for not excelling. People have a chance but they don't have a guarantee and they don't get it by waiting around for someone to hand it to them.


edit:
And if a student wants to learn s/he will learn and do well. The wealth of the school has some small minute influence but again the desire of the student has more.

My delicate ears? Now you're trying to be offensive rather than argue the point. Anyway, what you're saying is completely mistaken. Why is it that you can't accept the fact that poverty persists in western civilization? Do other places have it worse? Hell yes they do. Are lower class in other countries treated like dirt? Yes, and I'm not saying otherwise. I was just trying to make a point that more developed countries still don't have it right either. We life based off of a class society. I'd love to see multi-millionaire's flip burgers at a mcdonalds, or clean a porta-potty. Those lovely, undesirable jobs, are given to people who are just entering the work force or can't get something better. And blame them all you want for not being motivated enough, you have decided you are undisputably right and don't want to have your mind changed so I obviously won't be able to do it.

Rent Pursuit of Happyness sometimes. It's based on a true story.

Is it HARDER for those who start out at the bottom? You bet. But it's not impossible.

I said delicate ears because you got offended over a word. To me that is silly. But whatever commenting on it detracts from the point.

Of course multi-millionaires are not flipping burgers or cleaning a porta-potty. That isn't to say they didn't do such jobs before.

Why can't I accept that poverty persists in America? (Which I didn't say it didn't) Why can't you accept that someone can become wealthy without being born into it?

You obviously have convinced yourself that it isn't possible to better oneself and that it the attitude that keeps people from succeeding.

You're right, it's definately not impossible, but the idea that a little hard work and motivation will take you anywhere is just a bit naive in my opinion. When you don't have the fundamental resources right away you end up spending a lot of time playing catch up. I've tutored a lot of kids that come from very little and it's hard to see how badly they want to do well but are frustrated by their situations. Do they try? Yes, but there are more obsticles they have to overcome than we want to recognize.

I believe I said "it's very hard to move between them." which certainly doesn't mean I think it isn't possible to better oneself.

No one said "a LITTLE hard work". Again that is the attitude that prevents people from doing better. No it doesn't take a little hard work it takes hard work.

Also as I said, there is a lot of downward movement in wealth as well:

That means they earned the money. It wasn't handed to them by rich daddy.

I guess those 351,000 had over 25 kids a piece

Also these statistics are not new. They are not the result of the internet boom and similar:

I agree, wonderful movie. But part of the reason the movie is so wonderful is that it throws into sharp contrast all the people who *don't* manage to escape poverty. The story got publicity because it is something different.

Ok, first of all, meme is right to a certain extent. Whatever class someone is born into, limits slightly what they can do. The reason is a difference in values. Values concerning money, hard work, education all contribute to whether or not someone will succeed. A good majority of the working class will stay working class unless some value changes. And it's not that their values are bad per se, but their values don't afford them a chance to move into a better life. And who knows, they may be content where they are.

In the western world, we're lucky to have a general population that is above the poverty level. In many nations the majority lies below. This is where you will see with greater clarity how values negetively affect upward mobility.

Luckily, the disparities of wealth and class that exist here in the west aren't based on the caste system. Otherwise the poor would have an even harder time.

Wow, I didn't mean to start a sh*tstorm. I was mainly wondering how may Marie Curies and Albert Einsteins the world has been denied because of systems like these. You can argue socio-economic movement all you want, you can't argue that otherwise good people aren't "lost" in a caste system.