Plime/1Animal Cruelty and Eye Gouging : ATOM 0.3Animal Cruelty and Eye Gouging : ATOM 0.3www.plime.complime@plime.com2008, www.plime.com.2008-09-07T08:56:13+01:00<![CDATA[gammerus @ 5/25/2008 8:53:48 PM]]>264186« chinook : Interesting thread.

I don't like hearing people express a desire to harm an other, regardless of any provocation.

I th...]]>2008-05-25T20:53:48+01:002008-05-25T20:53:48+01:00« chinook : Interesting thread.

I don't like hearing people express a desire to harm an other, regardless of any provocation.

I think that people who harm and/or kill animals should be treated harshly by the law and by the community, though. If someone is senseless enough to torture an animal, I'd be worried about what they might do to me, or any other human, especially children. The idea of knowingly inflicting pain and causing an unnecessary death of another living thing is just wrong to me.

A few weeks (was it months already?) ago a group of teenagers here microwaved a kitty after breaking into someone's home, and the entire region was, and still is, in an uproar over the thing. I'm amazed at how effective public shaming can be to deter any copycats. Yay for public shaming.That is just wrong, I am so glad there have been no copycats.]]><![CDATA[Bornbad @ 3/4/2008 10:34:34 PM]]>2146192008-03-04T22:34:34+01:002008-03-04T22:34:34+01:00<![CDATA[chinook @ 3/4/2008 10:17:06 PM]]>214607
I don't like hearing people express a desire to harm an other, regardless of any provocation.

I think that people who harm and/or kill animals should be treated harshly by the law and by the community, though. If s...]]>2008-03-04T22:17:06+01:002008-03-04T22:17:06+01:00
I don't like hearing people express a desire to harm an other, regardless of any provocation.

I think that people who harm and/or kill animals should be treated harshly by the law and by the community, though. If someone is senseless enough to torture an animal, I'd be worried about what they might do to me, or any other human, especially children. The idea of knowingly inflicting pain and causing an unnecessary death of another living thing is just wrong to me.

A few weeks (was it months already?) ago a group of teenagers here microwaved a kitty after breaking into someone's home, and the entire region was, and still is, in an uproar over the thing. I'm amazed at how effective public shaming can be to deter any copycats. Yay for public shaming.]]><![CDATA[mahler87 @ 3/4/2008 8:25:01 PM]]>2145732008-03-04T20:25:01+01:002008-03-04T20:25:01+01:00<![CDATA[ReBoot @ 1/5/2008 2:20:22 PM]]>1710692008-01-05T14:20:22+01:002008-01-05T14:20:22+01:00<![CDATA[Nunkii @ 1/5/2008 4:45:24 AM]]>170944« smarty1052:When I was a kid I used to have to feed my cousins python for her b/c she was scared of it after it got more than 4 feet long.. so does t...]]>2008-01-05T04:45:24+01:002008-01-05T04:45:24+01:00« smarty1052:When I was a kid I used to have to feed my cousins python for her b/c she was scared of it after it got more than 4 feet long.. so does that make me bad for making the little mouse and snake fight? and enjoying watching it eat the mouse.Actually it does. Feeding live bait to a snake puts it at risk of getting injured by their live prey. If the snake was brought up on live food, they can be trained to eat frozen pinkies. It just takes a bit of time.

*EDIT* Also, theres a huge difference when watching a predator use whatever strengths they have in getting their prey. I find that amazing. However, watching any sort of animal that is prey to someone else and watching that and getting excited from? Thats just sick.]]><![CDATA[Lunarcadia @ 12/18/2007 10:45:12 AM]]>161217« ReBoot : It's sad when someone lacks basic self control and compassion and is cruel or violent toward an animal.

It's even sadder when som...]]>2007-12-18T10:45:12+01:002007-12-18T10:45:12+01:00« ReBoot : It's sad when someone lacks basic self control and compassion and is cruel or violent toward an animal.

It's even sadder when someone lacks basic self control and compassion and is cruel or violent toward another person in a misguided attempt to avenge animal cruelty, as if more violence will somehow solve the problem.

"For every thousand hacking at the leaves of evil, there is one striking at the root."
~ Henry David Thoreau.I don't think I agree. If someone were deliberately attempting to torture a helpless animal for their own sick pleasure, I would call into question their ethics as a whole.
Having an 8 year old cat I've raised from it's birth, I honestly don't know what I would do if someone were to maliciously harm him on purpose.
The very notion sends extremely violent thoughts running through my mind.]]><![CDATA[wags273 @ 12/13/2007 3:07:04 PM]]>158148« ReBoot:Hypothetical question: You're walking down the street, and you notice an out-of-control semi barreling down on a small child and a ca...]]>2007-12-13T15:07:04+01:002007-12-13T15:07:04+01:00« ReBoot:Hypothetical question: You're walking down the street, and you notice an out-of-control semi barreling down on a small child and a cat. You only have time to save one. Which would you choose?I save the child, and in that particular situation I wouldn't risk my life for an animal.]]><![CDATA[Ellz @ 12/13/2007 1:48:22 PM]]>158073

I killed my hamster when I was thirteen. It bit me hard and held on, and so I strangled it. I have no problem admitting it and might do it agai...]]>2007-12-13T13:48:22+01:002007-12-13T13:48:22+01:00

I killed my hamster when I was thirteen. It bit me hard and held on, and so I strangled it. I have no problem admitting it and might do it again if put in the same situation.

« smarty1052 : When I was a kid I used to have to feed my cousins python for her b/c she was scared of it after it got more than 4 feet long.. so does that make me bad for making the little mouse and snake fight? and enjoying watching it eat the mouse.
One difference is that the snake NEEDS to eat, but the fact that you enjoyed it moves you closer to the class of person that kills stray cats for fun. Also, your cousin shouldn't be allowed to have a pet she's afraid of and cannot care for herself. I can't bring myself to care much anyhow seeing as it does not affect me.

« ReBoot : Hypothetical question: You're walking down the street, and you notice an out-of-control semi barreling down on a small child and a cat. You only have time to save one. Which would you choose?
« wags273 : Do you believe that your pets lives are more valuable than a complete strangers childs life?
Depends on whether I knew the child or the cat, and how I was feeling that day. That said, I probably would save neither, as I would be trying to avoid the out of control semi myself.

I think my pets' lives are more valuable to ME. Value is subjective.

« glik : I was 6 at the time, and we had two lovely little hermit crabs.

Dad stepped on one. Then I bit my dad.

Damn you, dad.
Aww. Did he do it on purpose?
Sorry for laughing at the image of you biting your dad.



By the way, I do agree with Rowangrey in regards to wishing suffering on someone that harms any of my pets, family members, belongings, and possibly reputation. The only difference is that I may not keep it to just wishing, so long as I can avoid repercussions, legal and otherwise.]]><![CDATA[Rowangrey @ 12/13/2007 11:45:09 AM]]>157991« cheeselog1234 : True. I guess I was looking for more depth. ie. Who determined the delta smelt was an indicator species and how did they determine t...]]>2007-12-13T11:45:09+01:002007-12-13T11:45:09+01:00« cheeselog1234 : True. I guess I was looking for more depth. ie. Who determined the delta smelt was an indicator species and how did they determine this...etc.

I rarely take information for granted and constantly inquire the who what when where why and how's...my wife gets irritated with me quite frequently because of it.

RG, what is it you do as a profession? (if you don't mind sharing)I'm going to hazard a guess that the IUCN was involved somehow. This is the same body that determines what species are endangered, at risk, etc. Also, there are biologists who work for a myriad of companies (including the US government, and governments of other nations) whose jobs are solely to research the environmental impact on species in a given area. If enough of them publish peer-reviewed papers that present facts supporting the theory that the Delta Smelt's overall health is a good indicator of the area's water supply health, it becomes commonly accepted by the science community at large. This is the same way almost all scientific knowledge is gathered, presented, and becomes "fact" until proven otherwise by other scientists who go through the same process.
*whew!*

BTW, I am a veterinary technician. I am also attending college currently as a biology major working toward a veterinary degree.]]><![CDATA[Maven @ 12/13/2007 11:43:06 AM]]>1579882007-12-13T11:43:06+01:002007-12-13T11:43:06+01:00
All in all, it's most likely the result of several thousand man hours of work.]]><![CDATA[cheeselog1234 @ 12/13/2007 11:28:08 AM]]>157969« Maven : Until Californians figure out that this is NOT a sub-tropical zone and that green yards year round are ridiculousExactly why I wan...]]>2007-12-13T11:28:08+01:002007-12-13T11:28:08+01:00« Maven : Until Californians figure out that this is NOT a sub-tropical zone and that green yards year round are ridiculousExactly why I want to move away from here.]]><![CDATA[cheeselog1234 @ 12/13/2007 11:27:04 AM]]>157967« Rowangrey : Whether or not the article's author knew exactly what an indicator species is does not invalidate the fact that the smelt IS an indicato...]]>2007-12-13T11:27:04+01:002007-12-13T11:27:04+01:00« Rowangrey : Whether or not the article's author knew exactly what an indicator species is does not invalidate the fact that the smelt IS an indicator species.

If anyone needs freshening up on the term, please see this.True. I guess I was looking for more depth. ie. Who determined the delta smelt was an indicator species and how did they determine this...etc.

I rarely take information for granted and constantly inquire the who what when where why and how's...my wife gets irritated with me quite frequently because of it.

RG, what is it you do as a profession? (if you don't mind sharing)]]><![CDATA[Rowangrey @ 12/13/2007 11:23:39 AM]]>157965« cheeselog1234 : Funny thing is in both stories that mentioned 'indicator species' they don't clearly define what exactly that means. It seems like i...]]>2007-12-13T11:23:39+01:002007-12-13T11:23:39+01:00« cheeselog1234 : Funny thing is in both stories that mentioned 'indicator species' they don't clearly define what exactly that means. It seems like it is a term they threw into their story because a scientist explained it to them...Whether or not the article's author knew exactly what an indicator species is does not invalidate the fact that the smelt IS an indicator species.

If anyone needs freshening up on the term, please see this.]]><![CDATA[Maven @ 12/13/2007 11:22:10 AM]]>1579622007-12-13T11:22:10+01:002007-12-13T11:22:10+01:00<![CDATA[cheeselog1234 @ 12/13/2007 11:17:05 AM]]>157960« Rowangrey : indicator species Funny thing is in both stories that mentioned 'indicator species' they don't clearly define what exactly tha...]]>2007-12-13T11:17:05+01:002007-12-13T11:17:05+01:00« Rowangrey : indicator species Funny thing is in both stories that mentioned 'indicator species' they don't clearly define what exactly that means. It seems like it is a term they threw into their story because a scientist explained it to them...]]><![CDATA[Rowangrey @ 12/13/2007 11:07:21 AM]]>157951« cheeselog1234 : The point is the topic of discussion.

The answer is, we are willing to pay more $$$ for water so a fish won't die.

2007-12-13T11:07:21+01:002007-12-13T11:07:21+01:00« cheeselog1234 : The point is the topic of discussion.

The answer is, we are willing to pay more $$$ for water so a fish won't die.

Not sure what makes the delta smelt more valuable than the king salmon, or the trout, or tilapia, or albacore, or mahi mahi, etc...As dolly pointed out above, what makes it more valuable is that is acts as an indicator species that we (humans) use to judge the health of our water systems. That makes it hugely important.]]><![CDATA[cheeselog1234 @ 12/13/2007 11:04:57 AM]]>157950« Rowangrey : I'm not sure I see your point, here. Are you implying that limiting water supplies to people in California to save an endangered species...]]>2007-12-13T11:04:57+01:002007-12-13T11:04:57+01:00« Rowangrey : I'm not sure I see your point, here. Are you implying that limiting water supplies to people in California to save an endangered species is wrong, or right?The point is the topic of discussion.

The answer is, we are willing to pay more $$$ for water so a fish won't die.

Not sure what makes the delta smelt more valuable than the king salmon, or the trout, or tilapia, or albacore, or mahi mahi, etc...]]><![CDATA[Rowangrey @ 12/13/2007 11:01:21 AM]]>157948« dollyllama : You don't really need to read the whole thing, you just need to understand what was written in one of the blurbs on that page. 2007-12-13T11:01:21+01:002007-12-13T11:01:21+01:00« dollyllama : You don't really need to read the whole thing, you just need to understand what was written in one of the blurbs on that page. Ok, so it's either cut the water supply to a relatively small percentage of the population by 30% or kill an endangered species that acts as an indicator for our growing water issues? That's a no-brainer in my book.

When you move to the desert, please expect to have water issues. Forcing the land to support you by taking resources from someone (or something) else's land does not solve the problem, it just moves it upstream.

When California's population is forced to trek a few miles on foot to collect enough water for the day, THEN I'd consider further endangering a species that carries so much environmental weight. But just having to NOT water your patch of imported grass for a while, or not refill your pool does not constitute any sort of emergency even to the most selfish water consumer.]]><![CDATA[dollyllama @ 12/13/2007 10:48:23 AM]]>157939« cheeselog1234 : « cheeselog1234 : Case in point.

In some parts of southern California, our water supplies are being cut from the north because the delta smelt is endangered. You can read the stories if you want more detail...You don't really need to read the whole thing, you just need to understand what was written in one of the blurbs on that page. Here's the sentence:
the water to survive, but the delta smelt are an indicator specie that an entire ecosystem is collapsing and that human water supply is in jeopardy. ...
The demise of the smelt is an indicator that the ecosystem is collapsing and that the human water supply is in danger. Maybe we need to cut back on the humans so we're not destroying the planet and everything we need to survive in the process.

Let the truck hit the kid (and no, I would not do that because my instinct would not let me) but the attitude of human supremacy, that we can do whatever we want with whatever we want because we're egomaniacally convinced we're superior is our peril. We overpopulate, we prolong human life long after we're intended to be here. All very lovely on the surface but a complete disaster to this planet. So no, I do not intrinsically feel human life has more value, I think it has far less because of our stubborn refusal to live up to our superiority with some common sense and self-control of our destructive and arrogant behavior.]]><![CDATA[Rowangrey @ 12/13/2007 10:40:49 AM]]>157937« cheeselog1234 : 2007-12-13T10:40:49+01:002007-12-13T10:40:49+01:00« cheeselog1234 : Case in point.

In some parts of southern California, our water supplies are being cut from the north because the delta smelt is endangered. You can read the stories if you want more detail...I'm not sure I see your point, here. Are you implying that limiting water supplies to people in California to save an endangered species is wrong, or right?]]><![CDATA[cheeselog1234 @ 12/13/2007 10:37:23 AM]]>157934Case in point.

In some parts of southern California, our water supplies are being cu...]]>2007-12-13T10:37:23+01:002007-12-13T10:37:23+01:00Case in point.

In some parts of southern California, our water supplies are being cut from the north because the delta smelt is endangered. You can read the stories if you want more detail...]]><![CDATA[Rowangrey @ 12/13/2007 10:35:43 AM]]>157933« ReBoot : No, I didn't. You're taking what I said out of context. :)I don't think so. Explain the context and maybe we can figure out exac...]]>2007-12-13T10:35:43+01:002007-12-13T10:35:43+01:00« ReBoot : No, I didn't. You're taking what I said out of context. :)I don't think so. Explain the context and maybe we can figure out exactly what you were trying to say...]]><![CDATA[cheeselog1234 @ 12/13/2007 10:35:05 AM]]>157931« ReBoot : Hypothetical question: You're walking down the street, and you notice an out-of-control semi barreling down on a small child and a ...]]>2007-12-13T10:35:05+01:002007-12-13T10:35:05+01:00« ReBoot : Hypothetical question: You're walking down the street, and you notice an out-of-control semi barreling down on a small child and a cat. You only have time to save one. Which would you choose?The child silly, but if the cat was cuter...well...]]><![CDATA[Rowangrey @ 12/13/2007 10:33:50 AM]]>157928« ReBoot : Hypothetical question: You're walking down the street, and you notice an out-of-control semi barreling down on a small child and a ...]]>2007-12-13T10:33:50+01:002007-12-13T10:33:50+01:00« ReBoot : Hypothetical question: You're walking down the street, and you notice an out-of-control semi barreling down on a small child and a cat. You only have time to save one. Which would you choose?This is a loaded question that cannot be answered simply. If you are trying to force me to say that I would save the child rather than the cat you have only partially succeeded.

A) Everyone else on the street will be trying to save the child, so I'd save the cat.

B) If there is no one else around (then where the hell did this small child come from??), I'm going to have to trust that the cat, being WAY more able to protect itself, has a much, much better chance of avoiding the renegade demon truck than the small child with undeveloped sensory- and motor skills.

I do not save the child because I value its continued existence more than the cat. I save the child (in the case of "B") because it needs help the most.]]><![CDATA[ReBoot @ 12/13/2007 10:15:43 AM]]>157919« groovy b*****d : Wait, didn't you just post the complete opposite a death penalty topic? [link]No, I didn't. You're taking what I said o...]]>2007-12-13T10:15:43+01:002007-12-13T10:15:43+01:00« groovy b*****d : Wait, didn't you just post the complete opposite a death penalty topic? [link]No, I didn't. You're taking what I said out of context. :)]]><![CDATA[groovy bastard @ 12/13/2007 10:13:49 AM]]>157916« ReBoot : It's sad when someone lacks basic self control and compassion and is cruel or violent toward an animal.

It's even sadder when som...]]>2007-12-13T10:13:49+01:002007-12-13T10:13:49+01:00« ReBoot : It's sad when someone lacks basic self control and compassion and is cruel or violent toward an animal.

It's even sadder when someone lacks basic self control and compassion and is cruel or violent toward another person in a misguided attempt to avenge animal cruelty, as if more violence will somehow solve the problem.

"For every thousand hacking at the leaves of evil, there is one striking at the root."
~ Henry David Thoreau.Wait, didn't you just post the complete opposite a death penalty topic? ]]><![CDATA[ReBoot @ 12/13/2007 10:05:01 AM]]>157908Hypothetical question: You're walking down the street, and you notice an out-of-control semi barreling down on a small child and a cat. You only have time to save one. Which would you choose?]]>2007-12-13T10:05:01+01:002007-12-13T10:05:01+01:00Hypothetical question: You're walking down the street, and you notice an out-of-control semi barreling down on a small child and a cat. You only have time to save one. Which would you choose?]]><![CDATA[Rowangrey @ 12/13/2007 9:46:26 AM]]>157898« wags273
I would only kill someones pet if I felt it was a threat to my family or property and only after I had warned the owner (once).2007-12-13T09:46:26+01:002007-12-13T09:46:26+01:00« wags273
I would only kill someones pet if I felt it was a threat to my family or property and only after I had warned the owner (once).In reference to your recent statement about the value of "animal" vs "human" lives: I infer from the above-quoted statement you made earlier in this thread that you also value your inanimate property to be more important than an animal's life. Am I correct?

Edited, Yet Again: I have just seen a statement you made in another thread regarding your supporting dog fights, cock fights, and bullfighting. We will never, ever in a thousand years agree on this subject or get anywhere NEAR coming to a happy place between us. I suggest we just ignore each other's input on this subject from here on out.]]><![CDATA[wags273 @ 12/12/2007 11:49:54 PM]]>1577202007-12-12T23:49:54+01:002007-12-12T23:49:54+01:00<![CDATA[dollyllama @ 12/12/2007 11:46:12 PM]]>157715« wags273 : Do you believe that your pets lives are more valuable than a complete strangers childs life?I would react nearly the same if I sa...]]>2007-12-12T23:46:12+01:002007-12-12T23:46:12+01:00« wags273 : Do you believe that your pets lives are more valuable than a complete strangers childs life?I would react nearly the same if I saw an animal abused or a child. It's the idea of an innocent life being harmed. I know I would react the same because I have, fortunately I didn't have to gouge anyone's eyes out or kill them, but I can tell you I was prepared to do both and I had no qualms about it at the time.

I realize you asked this of RG but I can really relate to her stance. We put way too much value on human life at the expense of the other lives around us. That egocentricity ends up becoming smaller and smaller. The more you care about another living thing the more you care about each living thing. The less you care about another living thing, the less you care about each living thing. So ultimately it comes down to each man for himself which won't work as long as there's more than 1 living thing on the planet.]]><![CDATA[wags273 @ 12/12/2007 11:30:33 PM]]>157699« Rowangrey:My cats' lives are more important TO ME than a stranger's child is to me.I disagree with your belief, but I was just curious abo...]]>2007-12-12T23:30:33+01:002007-12-12T23:30:33+01:00« Rowangrey:My cats' lives are more important TO ME than a stranger's child is to me.I disagree with your belief, but I was just curious about how you felt personally.
Edited to add: Just so everyone knows I do not believe an animals life is as important as a humans life.]]><![CDATA[Rowangrey @ 12/12/2007 9:52:36 PM]]>157641« wags273 : Do you believe that your pets lives are more valuable than a complete strangers childs life?My cats' lives are more important TO ...]]>2007-12-12T21:52:36+01:002007-12-12T21:52:36+01:00« wags273 : Do you believe that your pets lives are more valuable than a complete strangers childs life?My cats' lives are more important TO ME than a stranger's child is to me. Just as your child's life is more important to you than a stranger's child would be.]]><![CDATA[Jerry520 @ 12/12/2007 9:50:19 PM]]>157638« iduffee : All living things are equally valuable. Well said. I think that no one animal is better than the other, we are all her...]]>2007-12-12T21:50:19+01:002007-12-12T21:50:19+01:00« iduffee : All living things are equally valuable. Well said. I think that no one animal is better than the other, we are all here just trying to survive. Violence is bad, but sometimes it is necessary, if it means protecting yourself or someone you love (human or otherwise). Animals are just trying to survive, just like you and I, and taking their life is just as bad as taking a human life.]]><![CDATA[glik @ 12/12/2007 9:44:16 PM]]>157627
Dad stepped on one. Then I bit my dad.

Damn you, dad.]]>2007-12-12T21:44:16+01:002007-12-12T21:44:16+01:00
Dad stepped on one. Then I bit my dad.

Damn you, dad.]]><![CDATA[iduffee @ 12/12/2007 9:37:18 PM]]>157622« wags273 : Do you believe that your pets lives are more valuable than a complete strangers childs life?All living things are equal...]]>2007-12-12T21:37:18+01:002007-12-12T21:37:18+01:00« wags273 : Do you believe that your pets lives are more valuable than a complete strangers childs life?All living things are equally valuable. Anyone would agree. Whether or not you feel love for your cat or a strangers child is personal. To many people, their pets are their children. Would you be more upset over the loss of your child or another person who you don't know exists?]]><![CDATA[punthe @ 12/12/2007 9:25:30 PM]]>157616is different than that of an animals. But I value my cats lives as much as you value your daughters life. This may sound crazy to you, but yo...]]>2007-12-12T21:25:30+01:002007-12-12T21:25:30+01:00is different than that of an animals. But I value my cats lives as much as you value your daughters life. This may sound crazy to you, but you have children and I don't or maybe can't. One day I might have kids, but until that day comes I will love and protect my cats as if they were my own flesh and blood. Good question btw!

P.S. I know the question was for Row, but I wanted to voice my opinion as well.]]><![CDATA[punthe @ 12/12/2007 9:20:40 PM]]>157612« Rowangrey:My pets are my children. I can only imagine that people with human children would be horrified to hear that someone they conversed with on...]]>2007-12-12T21:20:40+01:002007-12-12T21:20:40+01:00« Rowangrey:My pets are my children. I can only imagine that people with human children would be horrified to hear that someone they conversed with on a semi-regular basis had maliciously killed someone else's child out of pure spite. I imagine that their reaction would be somewhat akin to mine, even if they didn't voice it aloud.
If the anonymous poster had admitted that he/she had killed two of his/her neighbor's children and had plans for the other 20, I cannot imagine the uproar that would have erupted on this forum. Just because you put less value in companion animal lives than I do does not make you any more moral or right than I am in my beliefs.I totally afree. My wife has been told that it may be very difficult for her to have children and we have accepted that. Our cat are our children. I believe that our cats really are little people. People do not have to be human (IMO). I am not a violent person nor am I very confrontational. I also avoid physical agression to the upmost of my ability. However, I find it hard to believe that anyone could honestly admit that if they saw one of their children (human or animal) killed rght in front of them, that they would just say 'well, the laws are there for this. I won't do anything but press charges.' That, to me, is just ridiculous! I look back on my situation and think I really should not have grabbed that guy, but it was a heat of the moment issue. Also, they guy got a chunk of karma from it too.

Rowangrey, I salute you for being honest and sticking to your guns, so to speak.

Violence doesn't solve or stop violence. But, sometimes your actions take place far before you can even think them through. It's human nature.]]><![CDATA[punthe @ 12/12/2007 9:06:34 PM]]>157604« marli : Thanks, Punthe. Her name was Fig (Figaro, actually...) I only had her a few months- she was living in the barn of my house when we...]]>2007-12-12T21:06:34+01:002007-12-12T21:06:34+01:00« marli : Thanks, Punthe. Her name was Fig (Figaro, actually...) I only had her a few months- she was living in the barn of my house when we moved in. I found out from neighbors that she belonged to the previous owners and she just refused to leave the barn. Neighbors had tried to adopt her and she would always run away and return to this house. So we inherited her when we started renting this place, and she pretty much won everyone over. Even the dog liked her!That is just awesome! btw I think Figaro is probably one of the cutest cat names I've ever heard. Cat's rule and dogs drool! lol]]><![CDATA[wags273 @ 12/12/2007 9:02:52 PM]]>157602« Rowangrey : And I have said before that I'm ok with you all not agreeing with me. You know nothing about me and what I may or may not have...]]>2007-12-12T21:02:52+01:002007-12-12T21:02:52+01:00« Rowangrey : And I have said before that I'm ok with you all not agreeing with me. You know nothing about me and what I may or may not have seen in my life. You don't see what I see on a daily basis in my job. Hate me or be scared of me or whatever. It doesn't have any bearing on my decisions or self worth.

Edited To Add: My pets are my children. I can only imagine that people with human children would be horrified to hear that someone they conversed with on a semi-regular basis had maliciously killed someone else's child out of pure spite. I imagine that their reaction would be somewhat akin to mine, even if they didn't voice it aloud.
If the anonymous poster had admitted that he/she had killed two of his/her neighbor's children and had plans for the other 20, I cannot imagine the uproar that would have erupted on this forum. Just because you put less value in companion animal lives than I do does not make you any more moral or right than I am in my beliefs. I really think you need to just get over this one and move on, cheese.Do you believe that your pets lives are more valuable than a complete strangers childs life?]]><![CDATA[Rowangrey @ 12/12/2007 7:37:33 PM]]>157532« Hoosker : Yeah...your a little scary.That's ok.]]>2007-12-12T19:37:33+01:002007-12-12T19:37:33+01:00« Hoosker : Yeah...your a little scary.That's ok.]]><![CDATA[Rowangrey @ 12/12/2007 7:30:57 PM]]>157526« cheeselog1234 : RG. There's no way to spin it. Wishing harm on someone or someone's loved one is just not right. No matter what harm they've done.2007-12-12T19:30:57+01:002007-12-12T19:30:57+01:00« cheeselog1234 : RG. There's no way to spin it. Wishing harm on someone or someone's loved one is just not right. No matter what harm they've done.

Perhaps you haven't seen a loved one lying in a hospital bed, in ICU, on a respirator. Perhaps you haven't experienced a loss of someone close to you.

I don't know.

But those experiences change perspective and I wouldn't wish that on anyone, even if they maliciously harmed my pet.

There are rational and constructive methods to approach a malicious killing of a pet, and those methods do not involve reciprocal violence.And I have said before that I'm ok with you all not agreeing with me. You know nothing about me and what I may or may not have seen in my life. You don't see what I see on a daily basis in my job. Hate me or be scared of me or whatever. It doesn't have any bearing on my decisions or self worth.

Edited To Add: My pets are my children. I can only imagine that people with human children would be horrified to hear that someone they conversed with on a semi-regular basis had maliciously killed someone else's child out of pure spite. I imagine that their reaction would be somewhat akin to mine, even if they didn't voice it aloud.
If the anonymous poster had admitted that he/she had killed two of his/her neighbor's children and had plans for the other 20, I cannot imagine the uproar that would have erupted on this forum. Just because you put less value in companion animal lives than I do does not make you any more moral or right than I am in my beliefs. I really think you need to just get over this one and move on, cheese.]]><![CDATA[cheeselog1234 @ 12/12/2007 5:21:45 PM]]>157465« iduffee :

Out of curiosity, do you have a pet?The « iduffee :

Out of curiosity, do you have a pet?The Humane Society has a decent page on animal cruelty laws. Checkout the PDFs links on the bottom of the page.

In California, animal cruelty is considered a felony. I have to find out the legal definition of animal cruelty however...

and yes, I have a 2 year old chocolate lab.]]><![CDATA[iduffee @ 12/12/2007 5:13:03 PM]]>157457« cheeselog1234 : Yes. The justice system is setup to handle such a crime.

If this hypothetical situation occurred right in front of...]]>2007-12-12T17:13:03+01:002007-12-12T17:13:03+01:00« cheeselog1234 : Yes. The justice system is setup to handle such a crime.

If this hypothetical situation occurred right in front of me, I would assume myself to be a potential victim and thus defend myself accordingly.Yeah, but there is a gap between the murder of people and the intentional murder of animals. Read punthe's story about the man who swerved to hit his cat. He got a ticket.

as far as punishments go, kill them? no. Beat them? I still wouldnt say (but I wouldn't be all that against it). A reminder that you killed a small, defenseless cat because you have no heart? definitely.

Out of curiosity, do you have a pet?]]><![CDATA[cheeselog1234 @ 12/12/2007 5:05:13 PM]]>157448« Alton : Would you say the same about your spouse or children? Yes. The justice system is setup to handle such a crime.

2007-12-12T17:05:13+01:002007-12-12T17:05:13+01:00« Alton : Would you say the same about your spouse or children? Yes. The justice system is setup to handle such a crime.

If they were maliciously killed right in front of you?
If this hypothetical situation occurred right in front of me, I would assume myself to be a potential victim and thus defend myself accordingly.]]><![CDATA[Alton @ 12/12/2007 4:44:36 PM]]>157425« cheeselog1234 : 

There are rational and constructive methods to approach a malicious killing of a pet, and those methods do not i...]]>2007-12-12T16:44:36+01:002007-12-12T16:44:36+01:00« cheeselog1234 : 

There are rational and constructive methods to approach a malicious killing of a pet, and those methods do not involve reciprocal violence.Would you say the same about your spouse or children? If they were maliciously killed right in front of you?

I'm not saying I agree with what RG said, but I understand why she is saying it. Some people put more worth in the life of an animal than others.

Hell, some see them as gods to be worshipped, others see killing them as a form of entertainment on a slow afternoon.]]><![CDATA[cheeselog1234 @ 12/12/2007 2:52:57 PM]]>157324« Rowangrey :

I do, however, wish desperately that this person suffers some loss of a loved one in their lives that makes them despair and r...]]>2007-12-12T14:52:57+01:002007-12-12T14:52:57+01:00« Rowangrey :

I do, however, wish desperately that this person suffers some loss of a loved one in their lives that makes them despair and regret that they ever INTENTIONALLY caused that kind of suffering on someone else because they were too scared to confront an owner about their pet's behavior.RG. There's no way to spin it. Wishing harm on someone or someone's loved one is just not right. No matter what harm they've done.

Perhaps you haven't seen a loved one lying in a hospital bed, in ICU, on a respirator. Perhaps you haven't experienced a loss of someone close to you.

I don't know.

But those experiences change perspective and I wouldn't wish that on anyone, even if they maliciously harmed my pet.

There are rational and constructive methods to approach a malicious killing of a pet, and those methods do not involve reciprocal violence.]]><![CDATA[Hoosker @ 12/12/2007 2:48:40 PM]]>157323« Rowangrey : 

I do, however, wish desperately that this person suffers some loss of a loved one in their lives ...Yeah.....]]>2007-12-12T14:48:40+01:002007-12-12T14:48:40+01:00« Rowangrey : 

I do, however, wish desperately that this person suffers some loss of a loved one in their lives ...Yeah...your a little scary.]]><![CDATA[Rowangrey @ 12/12/2007 2:25:17 PM]]>157318« ReBoot : It's sad when someone lacks basic self control and compassion and is cruel or violent toward an animal.

It's even sadder when som...]]>2007-12-12T14:25:17+01:002007-12-12T14:25:17+01:00« ReBoot : It's sad when someone lacks basic self control and compassion and is cruel or violent toward an animal.

It's even sadder when someone lacks basic self control and compassion and is cruel or violent toward another person in a misguided attempt to avenge animal cruelty, as if more violence will somehow solve the problem.

"For every thousand hacking at the leaves of evil, there is one striking at the root."
~ Henry David Thoreau.Says the guy with the bloody bunny-suit avatar. Seriously, I said it in the other thread and I'll say it here, I WOULDN'T ACTUALLY PAY SOMEONE TO GOUGE THAT f**kER'S EYES OUT. Get the hell over it, people.

I do, however, wish desperately that this person suffers some loss of a loved one in their lives that makes them despair and regret that they ever INTENTIONALLY caused that kind of suffering on someone else because they were too scared to confront an owner about their pet's behavior.

EDIT: Hey, look! My first downvote, ever. Huh.]]><![CDATA[smarty1052 @ 12/12/2007 1:30:38 PM]]>1572852007-12-12T13:30:38+01:002007-12-12T13:30:38+01:00
Animal Cruelty and Eye Gouging
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<![CDATA[iduffee @ 12/11/2007 9:23:19 PM]]>2591A poster admitted to killing a neig...]]>2007-12-11T21:23:19+01:002007-12-11T21:23:19+01:00A poster admitted to killing a neigbors Chihuahua with a poisoned hotdog.
"i killed a neighbors chihuahua with a antifreeze-spiked wiener bc it attacked me everytime i stepped out of my front door.. teh owner thought it was funny and refused to control the little mop so i offed it."
They also have never heard of the Shift button.
Another admitted to killing their neighbors cats. An eyegouging threat was made (but wasn't serious).
Interesting arguments about whether an "eye for an eye" justice approach is appropriate. (Well, more like an eye for a cat)

I think anyone who kills an animal, or tortures one deserves the pain they inflicted upon the pet owner. If someone killed my dog, I couldn't help myself but to think horrible thoughts, but probably no more actions than alerting the persons family of what they have done.
Has anyone killed a pet of yours? If someone did, what would you do? Have you ever killed an animal(not hunting related, thats a separate story.)?]]>