"Intelligent" Design : RSS 2.0http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/low.mtmen-usplime.com2008, plime.com.Plime/1http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss"Intelligent" Design : RSS 2.0http://www.plime.com/images/logo.gifhttp://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/low.mtm<![CDATA[2manyusernames @ 6/13/2008 10:33:32 AM]]>« nikneven : I think that what some people often forget is that separation the separation of church and state means you cant teach/require/indoctrinate religion as truth. it DOES NOT mean you cant teach ABOUT religion.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mean teach ID as science.

I went to public high school in Texas, and even though it was a red state and bush was governor at the time, in our world history class, we had a section on world religions. We learned the basic belief and tenets of Christianity, Islam, Judiasm Taoism, Hinduism, Shamanism, Zoroastrianism and a lot of others. It was very clean and clinical in the same way sex ed wasn't porn, religions weren't forced on us. Religion should be taught in school, you should learn about it, not be indoctrinated by it, and NOT remain ignorant about it. and that is where ID should come into it.Perhaps religion as a concept, its origins, its effects on society, etc should be taught. The way history is effected and shaped by religion should be taught. Teaching the religions themselves can break the separation of church and state.

You are not supposed to hold one religion higher than another. Unless you have an infinite amount of teachers teaching an infinite amount of hours you can't teach ALL religions therefor you are in effect raising some over others.


I also wonder how things would go if someone wanted to make a case about teaching ancient beliefs as mythology. If we say that the ancient Greek, Roman, and all the rest religious beliefs are myths and not true isn't that breaking that separation? Why is it okay to say that Zeus is a mythical being that doesn't exist but you can't say the same thing about the more modern religious beliefs.]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q48http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q48education <![CDATA[TedGoas @ 6/13/2008 9:53:16 AM]]>« sparklyeyedgal181 : No. It has no basis in science. There is neither evidence for or against it, meaning it has no place in a scientific classroom.

In a philosophy class, sure. But since so few public school offer philosophy courses, then there's not really a place for it.I like tis approach. Also, ID has failed to make it through the rigorous process of peer review. It doesn't want to go through the steps it takes to get into classroom textbooks. It just tries to bypass them and get right in.]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q47http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q47education <![CDATA[doggylives @ 6/12/2008 3:39:14 PM]]>« donteatpoop : I'd like to point out that the part you quoted and rebutted was my response to "it's a load of excrament that should be disposed as such." Duly noted. I have had a little bit of inchahol so I'll add more tomorrow as ID's a bit heavy for me to think about right now. :D]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q46http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q46education <![CDATA[donteatpoop @ 6/12/2008 3:34:22 PM]]>« doggylives:This is the point I made earlier, you have faith in these things so I presume you will teach your kids or they will at least be brought up in a believing household so won't need to be taught ID at school. Don't get me wrong I'm not knocking what you believe or belittling but you said you had faith in ID not that you have solid evidence and that's precisely what worries me about it being taught in schools, ID and religion is all based on faith not evidence and therefore doesn't have a part in compulsory education, optional maybe.I'd like to point out that the part you quoted and rebutted was my response to "it's a load of excrament that should be disposed as such."]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q45http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q45education <![CDATA[nikneven @ 6/12/2008 4:21:50 AM]]>« Mershaullk : In the last school year (sophomore year) I learned about a multitude of religions, but there simply isn't enough time to go into detail with things like this, and, frankly, I don't see any reason to. The teacher went over 6 of the major religions very briefly, but I'm sure the students learned more than enough about them than they'll ever use.See, and I think thats part of the problem. 6 religions very briefly? These are belief systems that have motivated almost every major world conflict, that are a driving factor in most lives of over 84% of the people in the world. You need to understand religion to understand peoples motivation, even if you don't believe in it yourself.

6 religions very briefly and thats all anyone could need???... thats a huge problem in my mind

edit: That world history class was over 13 yrs ago, and I still remember it, and find it to pertinent and useful information. Measure that against how often you need to know about the second peace of thorn and i think it was time very well spent.]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q44http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q44education <![CDATA[Mershaullk @ 6/12/2008 4:10:19 AM]]>« nikneven:I think that what some people often forget is that separation the separation of church and state means you cant teach/require/indoctrinate religion as truth. it DOES NOT mean you cant teach ABOUT religion.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mean teach ID as science.

I went to public high school in Texas, and even though it was a red state and bush was governor at the time, in our world history class, we had a section on world religions. We learned the basic belief and tenets of Christianity, Islam, Judiasm Taoism, Hinduism, Shamanism, Zoroastrianism and a lot of others. It was very clean and clinical in the same way sex ed wasn't porn, religions weren't forced on us. Religion should be taught in school, you should learn about it, not be indoctrinated by it, and NOT remain ignorant about it. and that is where ID should come into it.In the last school year (sophomore year) I learned about a multitude of religions, but there simply isn't enough time to go into detail with things like this, and, frankly, I don't see any reason to. The teacher went over 6 of the major religions very briefly, but I'm sure the students learned more than enough about them than they'll ever use.]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q43http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q43education <![CDATA[nikneven @ 6/12/2008 3:44:27 AM]]>
Don't get me wrong, I don't mean teach ID as science.

I went to public high school in Texas, and even though it was a red state and bush was governor at the time, in our world history class, we had a section on world religions. We learned the basic belief and tenets of Christianity, Islam, Judiasm Taoism, Hinduism, Shamanism, Zoroastrianism and a lot of others. It was very clean and clinical in the same way sex ed wasn't porn, religions weren't forced on us. Religion should be taught in school, you should learn about it, not be indoctrinated by it, and NOT remain ignorant about it. and that is where ID should come into it.]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q42http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q42education <![CDATA[doggylives @ 6/12/2008 3:05:12 AM]]>« donteatpoop : I disagree not only because I have faith in these things This is the point I made earlier, you have faith in these things so I presume you will teach your kids or they will at least be brought up in a believing household so won't need to be taught ID at school. Don't get me wrong I'm not knocking what you believe or belittling but you said you had faith in ID not that you have solid evidence and that's precisely what worries me about it being taught in schools, ID and religion is all based on faith not evidence and therefore doesn't have a part in compulsory education, optional maybe.



I also disagree with that line. No place? None at all? You don't think the belief in intelligent design had any influence on the world you live in? You don't think that it is important form a psychological stand point? You don't think it would be appropriate in a philosophy class?

I think the mad hatter had the best point. Offer it as an elective in which all religeons are "taught". It shouldn't be a 'Christian Class', it should cover all religions.

True.]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q41http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q41education <![CDATA[chinook @ 6/11/2008 11:40:13 PM]]>« Jerry520 : I still stand by my words, because although religion itself has a place in schools in that there are religious classes that teach of the pros and cons of different religions and things, and that's okay, ID is a pseudoscience and has no place in schools at all.ID isn't a pseudoscience, it's not a science at all.

When I was taught evolution in both high school science and in university biology and paleontology, we were given numerous (paleo class had 12, I remember) evidences of evolution. What evidence is there for ID besides the fact that we're here and can think?

On saying that, I agree with the others above me. ID has a place, in philosophy or world religions class, and it should be taught next to every other theory and idea of how we came to be. All of the more popular ideas ought to be taught to ensure everyone is well aware of how people think.]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q40http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q40education <![CDATA[Jerry520 @ 6/11/2008 11:20:02 PM]]>« donteatpoop : I disagree not only because I have faith in these things, but also because many people have turned to the light in the darkest of times that might otherwise have ended their lives and the lives of others in tragedy. 'Course that has nothing to do with this thread.Well you can have faith in a higher power, but there is simply no proof that any higher power made us all appear here in the blink of an eye.

I also disagree with that line. No place? None at all? You don't think the belief in intelligent design had any influence on the world you live in? You don't think that it is important form a psychological stand point? You don't think it would be appropriate in a philosophy class?

I think the mad hatter had the best point. Offer it as an elective in which all religions are "taught". It shouldn't be a 'Christian Class', it should cover all religions.
I still stand by my words, because although religion itself has a place in schools in that there are religious classes that teach of the pros and cons of different religions and things, and that's okay, ID is a pseudoscience and has no place in schools at all.]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q39http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q39education <![CDATA[donteatpoop @ 6/11/2008 11:09:56 PM]]>« Jerry520 : I personally think ID is a load of excrement, and needs to be disposed of as such.I disagree not only because I have faith in these things, but also because many people have turned to the light in the darkest of times that might otherwise have ended their lives and the lives of others in tragedy. 'Course that has nothing to do with this thread.

It has no place in schools. At all.
I also disagree with that line. No place? None at all? You don't think the belief in intelligent design had any influence on the world you live in? You don't think that it is important form a psychological stand point? You don't think it would be appropriate in a philosophy class?

I think the mad hatter had the best point. Offer it as an elective in which all religeons are "taught". It shouldn't be a 'Christian Class', it should cover all religions.]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q38http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q38education <![CDATA[SkandarGraun @ 6/10/2008 10:15:40 PM]]>« Jerry520 : Quoted for prosperity. I personally think ID is a load of excrement, and needs to be disposed of as such. It has no place in schools. At all.I dont understand why are some religious people supporting ID. It is as if the Red Brigade was supported by Czechoslovakia from behind the iron curtain.
They just give a bad name to the cause.]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q37http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q37education <![CDATA[Jerry520 @ 6/10/2008 4:55:30 PM]]>« SkandarGraun : I think ID has no place in a school.Quoted for prosperity. I personally think ID is a load of excrement, and needs to be disposed of as such. It has no place in schools. At all.]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q36http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q36education <![CDATA[unzercharlie @ 6/10/2008 4:18:53 PM]]>
If religion is taught in school, it should be a religion class, covering many religions and beliefs.]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q35http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q35education <![CDATA[doggylives @ 6/10/2008 4:15:41 PM]]>« Bandit : Q: Does Intelligent Design have a place in schools?

A: Yes.

Why?
For the Earth to support human life there are many events that must have taken place before that life can exist. On Earth those events include the presence of oxygen, a temperature variance that's not too cold or too hot, the presence of some sort of food infrastructure, etc...

I don't buy the argument that it all happened by accident.I totally respect your opinion, who knows, maybe one day I might share your beliefs. I know you get pissed off with evolution and atheism posts so I just wanted to say before I comment that your beliefs are respected, by me at least.

The problem I have with Intelligent design and religion being taught in schools is that they are just that, beliefs.

Beliefs, IMO, are personal to the individual, I may believe in aliens based on "evidence" I've perceived but there's no factual basis for that belief, as yet, so I wouldn't want my children taught about UFO's in school.

School is a place to be educated not indoctrinated, there's a huge difference between the two. Sure, teach my kids about the worlds religions, give them facts but don't teach beliefs and religious doctrine as facts.

I personally believe that spirituality is highly personal, if my kids believe in ID when they are older then so be it, if they choose to be religious, so be it, but let them make those choices and seek out that information if and when they choose to.

School should be academic, teaching cold, hard facts not beliefs, beliefs maybe based on supposed "evidence", but still just a belief not a fact. Intelligent design is a belief not based in any facts but in faith, supposition and speculation.

You may commence downvoting.....now. :D]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q34http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q34education <![CDATA[SkandarGraun @ 6/10/2008 3:32:40 PM]]>
On the other hand Bible Studies and the study of ancient Greek and Roman culture are absolutely necessary IF a school wants to teach anything about European culture.

My 9 years old daughter told at school when asked that she is an atheist. Well, whatever is her decision I will make sure she is well educated in the books of the Bible and the myths of the ancient gods, because that is part of her heritage, her roots. If the school does not offer appropriate classes, that is just too bad, I will have to teach her myself, but I think this kind of cultural background education should be done in school.]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q33http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q33education <![CDATA[melgesevad @ 6/10/2008 2:58:46 PM]]>« chinook : Intelligent Design might have a place in schools, but definitely NOT in a science class. If it needs to be taught, it can be done in religion, or perhaps in philosophy as SEG mentioned, but not science.

I attended a Catholic school. We were supposed to be taught ID in addition to evolution, but our wonderful, fantastic science teacher spent maybe 10 minutes on the discussion, because he didn't think it was science enough for him to teach. There was so much science to worry about learning that we didn't want to take the time to learn about something that wasn't really science!Yeah, I agree with you. If ID is taught, it should be taught within the confines of a philosophy class, which is something that more students should be taught. They SHOULD learn about the different ways of thinking and not just something they are told to believe.]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q32http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q32education <![CDATA[Mershaullk @ 6/10/2008 2:00:30 PM]]>« Bandit:Q: Does Intelligent Design have a place in schools?

A: Yes.

Why?
For the Earth to support human life there are many events that must have taken place before that life can exist. On Earth those events include the presence of oxygen, a temperature variance that's not too cold or too hot, the presence of some sort of food infrastructure, etc...

I don't buy the argument that it all happened by accident.Where are you getting these "facts" from? None of them are necessarily true. The reason that the Earth has such abundant oxygen is because of life. Plants and things of that ilk changed the mass of CO2 into oxygen.

There's a perfect temperature variance on Earth as well. There are thermal vents that exude very high temperatures as well as the extremely cold ocean water surrounding it. In-between there's a temperature variant of many many degrees.

As for there having to be a food structure... what? I think you might mean some source of power. As for that, well, look into the sky. See that big ball of light? That happens to give off a lot of power.]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q31http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q31education <![CDATA[mewhitenoise @ 6/10/2008 1:43:31 PM]]>« madhatteraggie : Personally,
Tolerance and knowledge is the key here. A key that needs to be given to children so that way they do not end up like some of these wackos who preach from a soap box or form communes where they drink the 'special' kool-aide.but it's okay if they end up in a commune where they drink the electric kool aid....which I may form some day.]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q30http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q30education <![CDATA[Bandit @ 6/10/2008 12:36:02 PM]]>
A: Yes.

Why?
For the Earth to support human life there are many events that must have taken place before that life can exist. On Earth those events include the presence of oxygen, a temperature variance that's not too cold or too hot, the presence of some sort of food infrastructure, etc...

I don't buy the argument that it all happened by accident.]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q29http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q29education <![CDATA[Rambo2020 @ 6/10/2008 12:11:39 PM]]>
However after reading what MH said...i think it could/should be offered as an elective course.]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q28http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q28education <![CDATA[madhatteraggie @ 6/10/2008 12:01:02 PM]]>
I think it should be taught in schools but only as an elective class. The reason being that it will help children understand tolerance for other people's views as well as their own. If we sheild children away from these things at an early age we're only going to cause them harm when they're older and are confronted by a person of opposite religion.

Tolerance and knowledge is the key here. A key that needs to be given to children so that way they do not end up like some of these wackos who preach from a soap box or form communes where they drink the 'special' kool-aide.]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q27http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q27education <![CDATA[mewhitenoise @ 6/10/2008 11:49:50 AM]]>« maven : No, that's not what the ID movement is pushing. Their own agenda is to discredit science. Science teaches what can be supported via evidence gained from studying, modeling and experimenting, and can change to accomodate new evidence. They want science redefined to include ID, because ID fails to meet the criteria for being science. The theory of evolution already admits that there's a lot of unknowns, why put in some fabricated 'happy' non-science that specifically designates some occurances to the realm of magic and myth?

I've read up a lot of this lately because the direction of public education scares the crap out of me and I don't understand how something that is clearly not science can be shoe horned into the class room. The agenda and means of the people behing this movement are disturbing, and if they get their way, the US will fall even further behind in innovation and scientific advancement. This is akin to having Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny entered into the curriculum to explain filled stockings and painted eggs.I'm pretty sure Kindergarten teachers and teachers of early grades do support the validity of Santa and the Easter Bunny if questioned by kids, while it isn't exactly teaching it I think it's still silly.

The only fictional characters I'm going to convince my children are real are Bigfoot, Wendigo, and Mokele-mbembe.]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q26http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q26education <![CDATA[browntrout @ 5/11/2008 4:28:59 PM]]>
ID may not have a place in a science class but that's not to say it shouldn't be taught in a public school.

NOTE: I don't mean "taught' as a truth, but as an influencing factor of our modern world... much like ImNotBlue said.]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q25http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q25education <![CDATA[DerAlt @ 5/11/2008 4:01:59 PM]]>
The scientific theory belongs in science class and faith based theory belongs in church or your home.


"Theory: A theory is more like a scientific law than a hypothesis. A theory is an explanation of a set of related observations or events based upon proven hypotheses and verified multiple times by detached groups of researchers. One scientist cannot create a theory; he can only create a hypothesis.

In general, both a scientific theory and a scientific law are accepted to be true by the scientific community as a whole. Both are used to make predictions of events. Both are used to advance technology.]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q24http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q24education <![CDATA[maven @ 5/11/2008 3:57:34 PM]]>
Or is flat.

Or rides on the back of elephants.

Sorry, but when we're dealing with science, the alternate 'theories' that aren't based in science are not theories at all. They should not be treated as such.]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q23http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q23education <![CDATA[ImNotBlue @ 5/11/2008 3:45:21 PM]]>
HOWEVER, I don't agree that it should be ignored all together, as it is a topic that has a lot of social value attached to it.

If it were up to me, in the "Evolution" section, I'd have a simple paragraph at the beginning of chapter. It would read something similar to:

The theory of Evolution has been a controversial subject, ever since the theory first appeared. Some people disagree with this notion, pointing towards another theory known as "Intelligent Design." ID is the theory that some higher power created all of life, and it is through them, that life came to be.

To some, this belief (often tied into their religious beliefs) contradicts the theory of Evolution. In this chapter, we will only discuss the theory of Evolution from a scientific perspective. For more information on other theories, including Intelligent Design, you may wish to talk to your teacher, librarian, or spiritual advisor.

I don’t think something like that would be unreasonable.]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q22http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q22education <![CDATA[maven @ 5/11/2008 2:16:41 PM]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q21http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q21education <![CDATA[pocksucket @ 5/11/2008 1:58:12 PM]]>
Would the advocates say that it was something that was made up in 1987 as a way of exploiting a legal loophole that prohibits creation myths being taught in American schools if they involve a deity (that separation of church/state thing)?

And would there also be demonstrations of things that point to design having taken place? I'm not trying to be frivolous* but would that be things like the banana fitting in your hand quite neatly?

Never having heard any rational pro-ID arguments, I must confess to being in the dark a little.


*Well OK, maybe a little.]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q20http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q20education <![CDATA[imnotyoo @ 5/11/2008 1:30:48 PM]]>
If you're going to teach Intelligent Design in our schools, does that mean we can teach evolution in your church?]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q19http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q19education <![CDATA[browntrout @ 5/11/2008 1:13:08 PM]]>
I'm not suggesting that you teach anyone that ID is how we arrived here. I'm saying that you should present it as what it is - a popular belief among many of the world's people ...then leave it at that.

As for what makes me say that we know very little of our place in the universe - it's true.

We don't know (for certain) how the Earth was formed... how our moon got where it is... if there are other Earth like planets (my guess is that there are but we have no absolute proof)... and we don't know if other life exists and if so - how do we compare?

We don't even know that much about how our own bodies work (there are more "unknowns" than "knowns" when it comes to human biology).

I'd say my assessment is pretty accurate.

Note: I'm also not suggesting that the place for this discussion is in a science class in public schools. I'm saying that it is important for kids to understand some of the things that make the world what it is.]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q18http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q18education <![CDATA[tundramonkey @ 5/11/2008 1:10:21 PM]]>
Private schools - they can do whatever they want.]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q17http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q17education <![CDATA[Mershaullk @ 5/11/2008 12:54:40 PM]]>« browntrout : Maybe it should be taught as we do anything that doesn't have an "absolute" answer... you pose the question (how did we get here) and then you present ALL of the "popular" theories, allowing people to make their own minds up.Intelligent Design is only popular in religious circles. It is FAR from popular in scientific circles. It is infamous.

Given how little we actually know of the universe and our place in it, I don't think the idea of intelligent design is any more far fetched than evolution.
What makes you say that?

ID raises loads of other questions while unscientifically answering one.

Who is/are the creator/s? Where did they come from? How did they arise? etc.]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q16http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q16education <![CDATA[Mershaullk @ 5/11/2008 12:52:22 PM]]>« doggylives : All well and good but I had to have a sit down conversation about Hell as one of my kids came home worried because it sound "scary". I just don't think that at an impressionable age things like that should be taught. Kids take what they learn at school as fact and I try to keep them guilt/worry free and things like that rile me.I didn't mean that it should be taught to younger children. I meant "kids" as in 15-16 year olds. It definitely shouldn't be taught to those in middle or elementary school.]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q15http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q15education <![CDATA[maven @ 5/11/2008 12:44:57 PM]]>
I've read up a lot of this lately because the direction of public education scares the crap out of me and I don't understand how something that is clearly not science can be shoe horned into the class room. The agenda and means of the people behing this movement are disturbing, and if they get their way, the US will fall even further behind in innovation and scientific advancement. This is akin to having Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny entered into the curriculum to explain filled stockings and painted eggs.]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q14http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q14education <![CDATA[browntrout @ 5/11/2008 12:34:08 PM]]>
Given how little we actually know of the universe and our place in it, I don't think the idea of intelligent design is any more far fetched than evolution.

We tend to place things in a context that we can understand and intelligent design may be (in reality) something a lot more complicated than some bearded guy with a creative itch sitting atop the clouds.

Who's to say that the human race hasn't been just stewing in some cosmic petrie dish for a thousand years?]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q13http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q13education <![CDATA[Jerry520 @ 5/11/2008 12:22:35 PM]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q12http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q12education <![CDATA[maven @ 5/11/2008 12:14:12 PM]]>
It avoids publically identifying God as that intelligent maker, but internal documents from several of the organizations that push this agenda clearly state as much, as well as their goal to discredit real science.]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q11http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q11education <![CDATA[KEROberos32 @ 5/11/2008 12:13:21 PM]]>
Say there was a "designer" that made all of this, everything so complex with its ecosystems, symbiotic relationships, physical reactions, chemical compositions, mathematical calculations, psychological issues...

AND doesn't show "Itself" to take credit for all of it and DEMANDS that the general population believe through faith?

Well, that is just insulting...]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q10http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q10education <![CDATA[sykeo56 @ 5/11/2008 12:07:03 PM]]>
We should just call it, "Design."

Or "Once-intelligent Design."

Or "Attempted Intelligent Design that Actually Didn't Stand the Test of Time..."]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q9http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q9education <![CDATA[chinook @ 5/11/2008 12:06:35 PM]]>
I attended a Catholic school. We were supposed to be taught ID in addition to evolution, but our wonderful, fantastic science teacher spent maybe 10 minutes on the discussion, because he didn't think it was science enough for him to teach. There was so much science to worry about learning that we didn't want to take the time to learn about something that wasn't really science!]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q8http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q8education <![CDATA[maven @ 5/11/2008 12:05:51 PM]]>
Definitely not science, has no place in science classes prior to high school. There are some levels of education that I don't feel have adequate background and critical thinking training to adequately address this issue. In high school, again, it should not be taught AS science, but within the context of philosophy courses, it may have a place. It's not 'religious', per their own admission, because it specifically avoids identifying 'God' as creator.

In college/university level courses I think there are many ways to tackle the issue. Philosophy, psychology, media management, and certainly science students should all review the tactics being used by this campaign.]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q7http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q7education <![CDATA[doggylives @ 5/11/2008 12:02:36 PM]]>« Mershaullk : I think different religions should be taught in school as long as every religion gets treated the same. If the teacher decides to call the Norse religion "mythology", they must call the Christian or Muslim religion the same.

Teach the kids about religious culture, but don't give your personal input on whether or not one is more "true" than any other.All well and good but I had to have a sit down conversation about Hell as one of my kids came home from school worried because it sounded "scary". I just don't think that at an impressionable age things like that should be taught. Kids take what they learn at school as fact and I try to keep them guilt/worry free and things like that rile me.]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q6http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q6education <![CDATA[sparklyeyedgal181 @ 5/11/2008 11:56:04 AM]]>
In a philosophy class, sure. But since so few public school offer philosophy courses, then there's not really a place for it.]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q5http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q5education <![CDATA[Mershaullk @ 5/11/2008 11:44:14 AM]]>« doggylives : I don't think it has a place in schools but then I don't agree with RE been taught either. Religion is personal so I think keep it in individuals homes.

If a parents wishes to teach their children about their personal beliefs, fine, but do it on your own time.I think different religions should be taught in school as long as every religion gets treated the same. If the teacher decides to call the Norse religion "mythology", they must call the Christian or Muslim religion the same.

Teach the kids about religious culture, but don't give your personal input on whether or not one is more "true" than any other.]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q4http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q4education <![CDATA[doggylives @ 5/11/2008 11:40:45 AM]]>
If a parents wishes to teach their children about their personal beliefs, fine, but do it on your own time.]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q3http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q3education <![CDATA[Moe @ 5/11/2008 11:35:39 AM]]>http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q2http://www.plime.com/education/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q2education
"Intelligent" Design
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<![CDATA[Mershaullk @ 5/11/2008 11:26:41 AM]]>This caused me to notice that there are threads on Plime discussing various topics, but I have never seen one discussing this one. There's only one ground rule: No argumentum ad hominem. That kind of argument never goes anywhere.

I'll go ahead and pose the question:

Does Intelligent Design have a place in schools?

Personally, I don't think so. There's no specific evidence to support any kind of "designer", let alone an intelligent one.]]>http://www.plime.com/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q1http://www.plime.com/f/4174/1/rss2_0.rss#q1education