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Is this STILL going on?
Ha ha ha ha...
Oh, Plime.
You so crazy.I've said it before and I'll say it again, upvoting your own comments will not improve your rating. No, not even if you wish really hard and cross your fingers and stroke your lucky rabbits foot.
And lets face it, it's a little bit sad.]]>
Ha ha ha ha...
Oh, Plime.
You so crazy.]]>
I'm not being funny I'm just saying I don't think TM has anything to do with the asshatery in this post.]]>
]]>unless it is obvious that that something exists.
That argument can be turned right back around on you so it isn't logically sound.
Logic is proof in this case. If the burden of proof didn't fall on the affirmative position, I could claim that there is an invisible intangible unicorn sitting right next to you and you have to believe in it's almighty powers to go to the Elysian Fields when you die, and you would have to believe it because, hey, you don't have any proof that it isn't true.
The universe definitely isn't eternal in a steady-state sense. We know that by looking at cosmic microwave background radiation. As to it coming into existence uncaused, no one really knows. That's something that science has yet to figure out.
This is just common sense if you understand anything at all about Evolution.
That's not a affirmative position. Our position is that we don't think that it all arose with intelligence. Considering there's no evidence for such, I believe that we are also right.
There's a difference between design and designoid features.
Design - Something such as a pot or bowl, designed for something specific
Designoid - Something that seems as though it was designed but has really undergone some form of natural selection
This one just doesn't make sense.Yeah, what he said ^^
Also, Atheists don't assert that "god definitely does not exist", they assert that "it is possible that god exists, but it is VERY unlikely and entirely without evidence".]]>
Good thing I stopped caring about trying to change anyone else's opinions long ago.]]>
unless it is obvious that that something exists.
"The atheist would need to have complete knowledge of all time and space, and all dimensions, to know for sure that God does not exist. However, an atheist with such properties would be virtually ‘divine’ himself."
That argument can be turned right back around on you so it isn't logically sound.But then an example of self-refutation occurs: the proposition: ‘The burden of proof falls on the affirmative position’ is itself an affirmative proposition, so requires proof in itself!
Logic is proof in this case. If the burden of proof didn't fall on the affirmative position, I could claim that there is an invisible intangible unicorn sitting right next to you and you have to believe in it's almighty powers to go to the Elysian Fields when you die, and you would have to believe it because, hey, you don't have any proof that it isn't true.Also, atheists assert many affirmative statements without proof, eg. that the universe is either eternal or came into existence uncaused,
The universe definitely isn't eternal in a steady-state sense. We know that by looking at cosmic microwave background radiation. As to it coming into existence uncaused, no one really knows. That's something that science has yet to figure out.non-living matter evolved into living cells by pure undirected chemistry,
This is just common sense if you understand anything at all about Evolution.complex specified information arose without intelligence,
That's not a affirmative position. Our position is that we don't think that it all arose with intelligence. Considering there's no evidence for such, I believe that we are also right.design features arose without a designer,
There's a difference between design and designoid features.Design - Something such as a pot or bowl, designed for something specific
Designoid - Something that seems as though it was designed but has really undergone some form of natural selection
moral sensibilities arose out of amoral matter, etc.
This one just doesn't make sense.]]>1 : Appealing to feelings rather than intellect
2 : Marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made.
You like that word. You use it out of context.
Ad hominem is, "You are an ignorant person, therefore your arguments are wrong", and not "Your arguments are wrong, therefore you are an ignorant person." The latter statement may be fallacious, but it's not an ad hominem arguement.
My problem isn't with individual Christians but with Christianity, I've said it all along. If you choose to believe that theres a god and that "sinners" go to hell and "good" people go to heaven good for you.
What's bugged me about your attitude is getting on your high-horse about me and some others making comments about Christianity you deemed "rude and insulting" and the fact that you called me out for my opinion on Christianity.
I don't wish to discuss this further with you, perhaps when you are a bit older you will learn that everyone has a right to believe what they want and to speak out against whatever they want.
If you go through life shouting and busting a blood vessel when people say things you don't agree with you're gonna be pretty miserable.
Perhaps you should be out partying more at your age instead of arguing about God on the internet.
Good luck kid, I won't be engaging again with you as this has gone on way too long. If you wish to make any further comments to or about me please PM me.
**edit** By definition, any argument for or about God/the bible is ad hominem as the both are based on faith alone and not intellect.
Oh and upvoting your own comments doesn't improve your rating and it's a bit uncool :D]]>
One further point, debate is a process that involves the discussion of opinion, but which ultimately relies on presenting facts to back up ones opinions. Given this criteria it is technically impossible for a theologian to ever win a debate, as their beliefs are, by their very nature, entirely without proof. A skilled atheist debater will general grind a theologian down to the point where all they can say to retort is "well that's what I believe, I don't need proof because I have faith".
So how about you abandon this pointless "debate" and cut to the chase, you believe regardless of what anyone says and despite any proof that is offered to you, you're brainwashed, essentially, even if you don't realise it.
End.
I am not brainwashed in any sort of way. I look for facts, first, and then make my decisions. No one tells me what to believe. Case in point: my parents and i get into CONSTANT disagreements on religion and politics. I hate a lot of what the church is doing right now. I form my own opinions, and if your only argument against me is that I'm brainwashed, you fail. You guys cannot use ad hominem attacks.]]>End.
Both you and 1thirteen3 mistake disagreeing with a persons beliefs with dislike/hate of the person who believes it.
Unfortunately a lot of people are like 1thirteen3 and mistake people disagreeing with their beliefs as a personal attack. The only reason this debate got heated was when 1thirteen3 started preaching about hypocrisy and rudeness.It's getting tiring reading how you're deliberately twisting my words. I never said that disagreeing with my beliefs is a personal attack. In fact, I said that I encourage disagreement and debate. You, however, have been rude and insulting throughout the entire thread.
Here, I'll show you some of what you said in case you don't remember:
No, because Christianity is a lot like cancer
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA You need your head looking at
you can kiss my ass.
Hypocrisy is when you say one thing but do the opposite. If you say that everyone should be treated with respect but turn around and say Christianity is a cancer, then you're being a hypocrite. That's what I was arguing with you about and you turned it into a religious debate.HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA You need your head looking at
you can kiss my ass.
The reason for this was that it's ok for christians to believe that gay people go to hell and it's ok for them to believe what they want and to put non-believers down and mock them but they scream and shout when it's the other way round.
And it's ok for you to believe Christians are horrible people. But to start calling names and to insinuate that Christianity is a cancer is not respectful and that's what I called you out on. It's not ok for Christians to mock ANYONE; I never said it was. I don't think it's ok for anybody to mock anyone else. But, unfortunately, you twist my words so much that you can't even see what I'm saying.]]>
]]>I agree with one thing you said in your last comment and that is that it isn't right to mock people for their beliefs.
I totally believe that everyone has a right to challenge, disagree with, debate and disbelieve another's beliefs but as for outright mocking, no.]]>
Racism is the act of defining a person based on their race. Race, generally speaking, does not (or at least, should not) have a significant effect on who a person is, for example, if a black child is brought up by a white family, then they will behave and act like any other white child. Obviously this is a point for debate but I would ask that you accept this as a "how it should be" description of race.
Christianity is a belief system, therefore by it's very nature it is "collective", it groups people and makes them the same in so much as they all believe the same thing, if I disagree with that belief system then I am able to direct my objections at christians as a whole, because they all subscribe to that belief system.
You seem to be mistaking a specific attack on a persons beliefs as an attack on the person in general, which it is not.I'll have to disagree with you on that one. Change your logon ID and post something on another forum, (or here, for that matter) and see how personal it gets when you attempt to call someone out for being deliberately abusive on this subject. Try it.
So in summary:
Race does not define a person.
Christianity DOES define a person.
No. ACTIONS define a person. I could believe in a holy golden doorknob that talks to me when it goes up my backside, but at the end of the day, I am what I do, not what I say, or who I pray to. For example- Fred Phelps. If he is what he does, then he is a reprehensible human being. He hides behind his God, but his actions show he has serious mental issues. He uses religion and fear as a means of control. Race does not define a person.
Christianity DOES define a person.
Next- Mother Theresa. She expressed doubts, but at the end of the day, doubts or no- Her body of work speaks for her. She may have believed in a dead zombie jew, but she walked the walk.
You don't choose your race.
You DO choose your religion.
You also choose what you do every day, race religion notwithstanding.Race doesn't excuse poor behavior any more than religion does. You DO choose your religion.
And I choose to mock your religion, and your belief in it.
Surely you can do better. Just because you can does that mean you should? Simple.
]]>You might want to start with sites such as
There have also been archaelogical finds which have demonstrated that the Christian Scriptures are accurate / historically trustworthy. I'm sure if you googled it, you'd be able to find plenty of sites with such information.Haha, you funny man!
Seriously, you can't win so don't try, everything you said there reeks of ignorance, and I simply can't be bothered to explain it to you, so how about YOU go and read about A) what atheists actually believe, and B) what constitutes proof.]]>
You're welcome]]>
This will pass, and the numbers will climb back up, but- Jeez. Do you find this so threatening? I expected better from Plime. This is sad, really. It's the main reason I get disgusted with all the other sites. I'll give it more time, but the "run them out on a rail" mentality is going to turn this place into a one sided echo chamber.I've done some backpost downvoting on someones comments because when someone comes to you attention and you start looking through their other comments and finding they've made rude comments that you strongly disagree with then thats what the downvote buttons there for.
I personally haven't downvoted any of your comments but if I'd have wanted to I would, like I've pointed out before, not only in these comments but others, this is a wiki site, you don't pay any money to come on it, you won't lose anything from being downvoted so why whine and moan when you do get downvoted.
As Mershaullk said, if you don't like a particular comment thread don't read it or downvote any comments you feel are out of order, rude or offensive.
I seriously wonder if some people have a life offline, I personally don't give a s**t about what numbers next to my name or who downvotes me, I have better things to worry about.
I don't understand the mentality of someone who comes on a site that allows users to downvote and upvote each other and then whines and b***hes that they've been downvoted.
MEH!!
Seriously, if I could give you all my little numbers from next to my name I genuinely would, as I can't do this I'm going to upvote as many of your comments and posts as I can to see if we can't right this terrible wrong thats been done to you.
**edit** I see you haven't submitted anything to contribute to Plime yet so I'll just upvote all your comments mmmmmkay?]]>
This will pass, and the numbers will climb back up, but- Jeez. Do you find this so threatening? I expected better from Plime. This is sad, really. It's the main reason I get disgusted with all the other sites. I'll give it more time, but the "run them out on a rail" mentality is going to turn this place into a one sided echo chamber.]]>
Face it Christianity was imposed by force with armies and wars and suffering and for someone to be a Christian today is plain stupid because you actually agree with all the killings your ancestors made if others didn't convert to Christianity.
There are a few religions like Buddhism that don't care if other believe them or join them they don't argue about my religion is better or not, how many post have you seen with a budhist arguing? you didnt and thats because they believe it for themselves and its not an afterlife religion it's a way of living.
When i see orthodoxism, catholicism, and al the s**t i see only manipulations, bribes, lies and greed. i don't believe god exists in any form, maybe we have another form after we die maybe we become energy or just maybe we live, get old , all gets black and we simply live to make friends, family, wives and then watch them die and eventually die ourselves. Life is a big pile of s**t but i try to leave it as good as i can and at the end maybe cheat death, if i cant at least i tried.]]>
What is the old argument... lemme see if I can find it online, as I don't think I could state it properly from memory...
----------------
"The atheist would need to have complete knowledge of all time and space, and all dimensions, to know for sure that God does not exist. However, an atheist with such properties would be virtually ‘divine’ himself."
[An atheist responds:] An atheist needs do no more. An atheist does not need to prove that God does not exist — the theist must demonstrate that God does exist. [end of atheist's, T.B.'s, quote]
T.B. seems to be using the tactic of throwing the burden of proof on those asserting an affirmative proposition, e.g. ‘God exists’ as opposed to the negative proposition ‘God does not exist.’
But then an example of self-refutation occurs: the proposition: ‘The burden of proof falls on the affirmative position’ is itself an affirmative proposition, so requires proof in itself!
But this commonly overlooked point aside, as shown by the Encyclopdia Britannica, atheism is just as much an assertion as theism.
Therefore the burden of proof falls equally, and a fairer debate question would be ‘Does God exist?’
Also, atheists assert many affirmative statements without proof, eg. that the universe is either eternal or came into existence uncaused, non-living matter evolved into living cells by pure undirected chemistry, complex specified information arose without intelligence, design features arose without a designer, moral sensibilities arose out of amoral matter, etc.
------
To read the rest of the page quoted above, here is the URL
I totally disagree! If I walked up to my friends and said "I've got an invisible friend" initially they would laugh, then when I insisted enough and doubt set in one may say "Well prove it then" It wouldn't be reasonable or logical to expect them to provide the proof that I didn't have an imaginary friend.
If someone makes an assertion that something is or exists then the burden is on them to provide proof.]]>
Both you and 1thirteen3 mistake disagreeing with a persons beliefs with dislike/hate of the person who believes it.
I have no problem with individiuals who believe in God, a lot of my friends are Christians, but rather I have a problem with some of the things they believe in and I don't share their beliefs in God.
Unfortunately a lot of people are like 1thirteen3 and mistake people disagreeing with their beliefs as a personal attack. The only reason this debate got heated was when 1thirteen3 started preaching about hypocrisy and rudeness. The reason for this was that it's ok for christians to believe that gay people go to hell and it's ok for them to believe what they want and to put non-believers down and mock them but they scream and shout when it's the other way round.
So to sum up and answer your question, I don't hate any individuals, I dislike/hate/disagree with some concepts, religions and groups but not individuals.
I'll give an example, I HATE the kkk and organizations like these but I don't hate the individuals within the group, I hate what they stand for and disagree with it, but I don't hate the individual as they may be good people who will at some point change.]]>
One further point, debate is a process that involves the discussion of opinion, but which ultimately relies on presenting facts to back up ones opinions. Given this criteria it is technically impossible for a theologian to ever win a debate, as their beliefs are, by their very nature, entirely without proof. A skilled atheist debater will general grind a theologian down to the point where all they can say to retort is "well that's what I believe, I don't need proof because I have faith".
So how about you abandon this pointless "debate" and cut to the chase, you believe regardless of what anyone says and despite any proof that is offered to you, you're brainwashed, essentially, even if you don't realise it.
End.checkmate.]]>
(Don't really care about the downvoting) I'm sorry, but I don't find this funny.]]>
You might want to start with sites such as
There have also been archaelogical finds which have demonstrated that the Christian Scriptures are accurate / historically trustworthy. I'm sure if you googled it, you'd be able to find plenty of sites with such information. Post Script. Atheists don't have any proof for their position, either :o)
What is the old argument... lemme see if I can find it online, as I don't think I could state it properly from memory...
----------------
"The atheist would need to have complete knowledge of all time and space, and all dimensions, to know for sure that God does not exist. However, an atheist with such properties would be virtually ‘divine’ himself."
[An atheist responds:] An atheist needs do no more. An atheist does not need to prove that God does not exist — the theist must demonstrate that God does exist. [end of atheist's, T.B.'s, quote]
T.B. seems to be using the tactic of throwing the burden of proof on those asserting an affirmative proposition, e.g. ‘God exists’ as opposed to the negative proposition ‘God does not exist.’
But then an example of self-refutation occurs: the proposition: ‘The burden of proof falls on the affirmative position’ is itself an affirmative proposition, so requires proof in itself!
But this commonly overlooked point aside, as shown by the Encyclopædia Britannica, atheism is just as much an assertion as theism.
Therefore the burden of proof falls equally, and a fairer debate question would be ‘Does God exist?’
Also, atheists assert many affirmative statements without proof, eg. that the universe is either eternal or came into existence uncaused, non-living matter evolved into living cells by pure undirected chemistry, complex specified information arose without intelligence, design features arose without a designer, moral sensibilities arose out of amoral matter, etc.
------
To read the rest of the page quoted above, here is the URL
]]>
To say that theists have "no proof" -*at all* regarding *any* aspect of their religion- is not true.
You might want to start with sites such as
There have also been archaelogical finds which have demonstrated that the Christian Scriptures are accurate / historically trustworthy. I'm sure if you googled it, you'd be able to find plenty of sites with such information.]]>
**edit** Downvote my comments all you want, I'll return the favor :D So if I'm a black person AND I am a Christian, you won't hate me for my skin color, but you will hate me for my religious beliefs?]]>
It was just sick."Lulz detected in following links"
(Don't really care about the downvoting)]]>
It was just sick.]]>
Atheism
Christianity
edit: oh yeah, nsfw]]>
If you two can't get along I am going to send you both to your rooms!Which two? 0_o]]>
If you two can't get along I am going to send you both to your rooms!]]>
One further point, debate is a process that involves the discussion of opinion, but which ultimately relies on presenting facts to back up ones opinions. Given this criteria it is technically impossible for a theologian to ever win a debate, as their beliefs are, by their very nature, entirely without proof. A skilled atheist debater will general grind a theologian down to the point where all they can say to retort is "well that's what I believe, I don't need proof because I have faith".
So how about you abandon this pointless "debate" and cut to the chase, you believe regardless of what anyone says and despite any proof that is offered to you, you're brainwashed, essentially, even if you don't realise it.
End.]]>
one thing my mom taught me when i was a kid is if you are offended by something that someone said then it must be true or else you would laugh at it and wal away. those of you who HAVE been offended by these posts know what i'm saying.
JUST....LET....IT....GO...and save this space for people who are here to enjoy themselves, not get wrapped up in a religious debate.
/rant
*i know i will be downvoted, but who cares? i'm here for fun, not votes.
« madhatteraggie : ALRIGHT THATS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
EVERYONE BEHIND THIS DOOR PRONTO!
[image]
Oh, for f**k's sake. If you don't like the fact that we're debating, then leave. I really don't understand why it's so hard for some people to understand that there's a little "x" button that closes the window at the top right of their screen.]]>EVERYONE BEHIND THIS DOOR PRONTO!
[image]
Well, the process of sexuality is there for the biological purpose of reproduction.
By that nature, the sexual act is defined as intercourse between a male and a female.
In the animal kingdom (and atheists believe we all come from animals), the norm is heterosexuality.
Therefore, homosexuality is not "normal" according to nature, i.e. nature did not intend and did not provide any biological use for homosexual relationships.Neither are clothes, televisions, or automobiles, but I bet you use all three of those daily. And actually, homosexuality does happen in nature. It just doesn't happen as often as heterosexuality or bisexuality (which happens quite frequently).]]>
Is...is it over?
*pauses*
Praise the lawd! I believe this is peace in our time for realz. =)
*shelling resumes*
s**t!]]>
You just come across as soooo smug and up ur own ass.
I won't be commenting on any of your comments again because it's futile. You believe the bigoted, hypocritical, judgmental things that you believe and I happen to believe that there is no magically awful place like hell and I live my life as best I can using my morals as a compass and don't live in fear of burning in hell and that works just fine for me. A.) Your inferiority was in your debate style, not inferiority as a person. I guess I need to be a little for clear for some of you common folk.
B.) I couldn't care less if you never responded to one of my posts again. I don't, however, believe in bigoted, hypocritical, judgmental things (p.s. that was an ad hominem argument you presented there). Live your life how you'd like. I wasn't telling you how to.
You obviously feel what you believe is right and everyone else is wrong like so many other religious people so good for you.
Let's see here. Hypocritical statement number 50 (I think we're at 50 from you but I'm not entirely sure). You're allowed to believe that you're right and everyone else is wrong, but you're not this zealot because, of course, you're you. But when I think I'm right, I'm this religious nazi. I think you need to go read up on what is and what is not hypocrisy, because you've been so blinded against it]]>And no I don't think they're done yet. History has show that wars can go on for years, no? lolI've decided to stop stooping to others levels. I should know by now that theres no reasoning with a lot of religious people because they seem blinded by fear and myth, so I'm gonna call it a day and move on :D
Thank god I'm an Atheist
EVERYONE BEHIND THIS DOOR PRONTO!
I was just pointing out to you so that you would realize that I'm not putting myself above anyone, unlike yourself.
Oh, so you DO know what hypocrisy is. I was doubting you for a minute, because you were having difficulty understanding what hypocrisy was earlier. I wrote that specifically to see if you really understood what hypocrisy was. Turns out you do. I'm so proud :). It sounds like you're finally learning something useful.
p.s. stop with the ad hominems, you've been doing it constantly and it's a debate fallacy. You're showing your inferiority here.Wow, did Christ teach you how to view people as inferior or did you learn that on your own?
You just come across as soooo smug and up ur own ass.
I won't be commenting on any of your comments again because it's futile. You believe the bigoted, hypocritical, judgmental things that you believe and I happen to believe that there is no magically awful place like hell and I live my life as best I can using my morals as a compass and don't live in fear of burning in hell and that works just fine for me.
You obviously feel what you believe is right and everyone else is wrong like so many other religious people so good for you.]]>
And no I don't think they're done yet. History has show that wars can go on for years, no? lol]]>
I watched/played Pokemon religiously as a kid, I was just wondering how it fit into here. Now that you have explained I feel much less confused.
Oh, and..
If this were at all possible I bet all of you would do it. =P
I would lol.Lmao!!! I fixed the image dude. ya can't use the html embed codes from site on Plime. You need to paste the direct link between the image tags :D Click edit on your comment and you'll see what I mean. I did it on a few of your other comments too, hope ya don't mind]]>
So you believe that a practicing homosexual is a sinner and therefore will go to hell unless they repent or stop their homosexual "actions". If you actually paid attention to what I said, it was that sinners to go Hell, not just gays. Let's not pick and choose what I said, but rather read the WHOLE sentence. You know, kinda how we were taught in grade school. Read to the period.
You put yourself on the same level as "gays"? well thats mighty magnanimous of you.
I wonder if you realize how pious, preachy and judgmental you sound.
I was just pointing out to you so that you would realize that I'm not putting myself above anyone, unlike yourself.I wonder if you realize how pious, preachy and judgmental you sound.
Wow, that's not rude and insulting at all. You're a typical hypocrite who can't see their own actions for the mist of self-righteous mumbo-jumbo they believe in.
Oh, so you DO know what hypocrisy is. I was doubting you for a minute, because you were having difficulty understanding what hypocrisy was earlier. I wrote that specifically to see if you really understood what hypocrisy was. Turns out you do. I'm so proud :). It sounds like you're finally learning something useful.p.s. stop with the ad hominems, you've been doing it constantly and it's a debate fallacy. You're showing your inferiority here.]]>
p.s. I'm sorry
p.s.s. I'm tired
p.s.s.s. hug your fellow man/pikachuI wasn't saying like you were ewrong or anything, man. I was just confused in my sleep deprived mind lol.
I watched/played Pokemon religiously as a kid, I was just wondering how it fit into here. Now that you have explained I feel much less confused.
Oh, and..
If this were at all possible I bet all of you would do it. =P
I would lol.]]>
Most Christians don't have an understanding of how Christianity works. All sin is sin, regardless of what sin it is. Thus, homosexual actions would be just as bad as lying. Most Christians don't understand that and they get their views warped by half-truths or lies.
So you believe that a practicing homosexual is a sinner and therefore will go to hell unless they repent or stop their homosexual "actions". I never said that gays were choosing to be gay, you just assumed it. I just said that gays were no more deserving of Hell than you or I. Notice: I just put myself on the same level of gays, something a bigot would not do
You put yourself on the same level as "gays"? well thats mighty magnanimous of you. I wonder if you realize how pious, preachy and judgmental you sound.
Haha, you're pathetic.
Wow, that's not rude and insulting at all. You're a typical hypocrite who can't see their own actions for the mist of self-righteous mumbo-jumbo they believe in.]]>one thing my mom taught me when i was a kid is if you are offended by something that someone said then it must be true or else you would laugh at it and wal away. those of you who HAVE been offended by these posts know what i'm saying.
JUST....LET....IT....GO...and save this space for people who are here to enjoy themselves, not get wrapped up in a religious debate.
/rant
*i know i will be downvoted, but who cares? i'm here for fun, not votes.]]>