Excuse me, but:
Wanting someone to speak my language when they come to my country (just like any other country would expect) is ELITIST. Expecting someone in another country to speak English because I go there (as I am expected to now learn Spanish) is ELITIST.

Just PICK A STANDARD and I will follow it. Right now, I am f**ked either way.

Until I started traveling I didn't think learning other languages were important. Then I experienced cultural idiocy, and realized they were.

I went to Quebec several years ago and someone asked me when the bus was coming. It took several minutes of mulling over what they'd asked and filtering it with what little high school french I'd paid attention to before I could respond, and they were long gone.

More recently, I was in Iguazu, Brazil in a cab with a German driver in a country that speaks Portugese. If a cabmate hadn't spoken Spanish and English, God only knows where we would have ended up. At that point I thought never again... took Spanish at my local community college and went to Durango Mexico the following year, where I could converse with the people (but only in the present tense!) and LOVED the experience.

Since then it's come in handy at home too; there are lots of migrant workers here. Example: I pull up to a gas pump, and perplexed migrant workers at the next pump are staring at the loudspeaker trying to figure out what the heck "prepay" means. I could tell them "pay first" and all was well.

It's unrealistic to expect visitors or immigrants to speak (edit: FLUENT) English, but it's good manners for us to try to learn at least some of their language before we visit their country.

In short, knowing more than one language helps everybody.

I agree about visitors (though I would appreciate an attempt).

I completely disagree about immigrants. Why is it unrealistic? If I am moving to Spain, it would be unrealistic to expect me to learn Spanish?

In one paragraph you outlined the double standard. It is somehow WRONG to expect someone to learn English when they MOVE HERE, and it is WRONG for me to go to another country and not learn their language? (Somehow their language is more deserving than mine?)

At this point, go ahead and just say that I AM WRONG JUST BECAUSE I AM AN AMERICAN. Go ahead, you know you want to.

(BTW, just to be clear, I have, in the past, learned two foreign languages and American Sign Language. I do not expect everyone to speak English, but I do expect that, if they move here, they respect my country enough to learn English. Just as I would respect their country enough if I moved there.)

I have never said ain't!!

The quotes indicated to me that clscott was expressing the common feelings of others, those with elitist opinions of America, not necessarily her own opinion. Within context of her next statement, she seems to be saying that while she's tired of the US bashing, she does agree that it's a snobby attitude to have.

Read it again: (emphasis added by me)

MY standard is to at least attempt to learn some of the language of a country that I am going to. NOT expect them to know English because that is what I speak.

Should immigrants learn English if they are going to live here? Yes. That is my stance and I will always adhere to that. My question is: what is the harm in learning other languages that may make the communication gap lesser.

Like I said in my comment: A non-English speaking person comes here, tries to speak the language and is treated like s**t because they are not speaking it well enough. I can't tell you how many times I have seen this. In other countries, you try to speak their language and they, from what I have been told by many friends that have traveled abroad, appreciate the effort and usually speak English so you can understand.

Never once did I say that it was NOT okay for anyone to come to this country and EXPECT us to know their language. I simply said that learning another language would be beneficial and that I would hold myself to the same standards should I ever get to travel to a place where English is not the native language.

I am confused. What part about my comment made you think that?

EDIT: Ahh, I see now having read the rest of the comments. Yes, I called some of US elitist. As stated above: A non-English speaking person get ridiculed, ignored or discriminated against because their English was less than. So, tell ME, what STANDARD is that???

What part of:

did I misunderstand?

Seems to pretty clearly say ELITIST = "WANTING SOMEONE TO SPEAK MY LANGUAGE WHEN THEY COME HERE."

The double standard is when you also say it is OK for other countries to expect me to speak their language when I go there.

For the record, I think you should try the language if you visit a non-English-speaking country, and that you MUST learn it if you wish to move there.

I am just tired of being the villain when I suggest that it applies to folks that move here, as well.

EDIT: I apologize if you saw this as an attack on you, personally. My point is mean to heap scorn on the general argument and I just happened to use your quotes as examples. It is the notion that I am somehow elitist and oppressive for expecting someone that comes to the U.S. to actually want to be part of the U.S.

Maybe the spellchecker is racist!

I know that I am a lazy typer. More often than not, I write the way I speak and neither proof read nor spell check anything on the internet. I know the correct grammar and punctuation, I just don't alway use it.

But damn this thread makes me wanna be a raving b***h and go through to correct all the errors.

anyone else? (it might just be the wine)

Actually it is.

Languages are fluid. They change over time. Ain't is a legitimate word by its common usage.

Considering "ain't" has been around since the 1600's its validity is stronger than a lot of other words that are accepted. Heck if, 'w00t' is now a word and was even the "word of the year", ain't is most definitely a word.

Sure there is the invalid stereotype behind it, but that doesn't mean it isn't a word.

I agree. Hell, "double-double" was added as to the dictionary, what does Punthe think aboot that ;)

I think languages are beautiful and practical tools. I love trying to pick up new languages, though I've been told I've got a knack for it.

My children will be learning English and French at the very least, with their choice of a third language when they're a bit older. I feel it's almost dangerous to be restricted to one language in this "global village" we all inhabit.

I've definitely been laughed at for my struggling (insert language here) when I've traveled, and as much as I hate to say it, Quebec was the worst for it! I agree with clscott, though, the predominant attitude to ESL speakers in North America ought to change because it's not helping anyone.

I don't think you seem to understand. It was suggested that people learn another language other than their native language. SUGGESTED. Which by definition means that if you do not have a gun pointed at your head and are at risk of dying then you have a choice NOT to do it.

It is the general concensus that if people are going to emmigrate and live in another country, then they should, at the very least, learn the language of said country, not the other way around.

That should be the minimum requirement.

Now, if you happen to be an over-achiever, or someone who really enjoys speaking languages, or travels for business or pleasure, then it makes sense that you would want to learn another language for you to take advantage of the benefits alone.

I have not said, anywhere in this thread, that someone should NOT learn another language. My objection is to being told I am wrong to say someone should learn my language when they come to my country.

You say the consensus is that they should learn my language. I struggle to see, if this is so, how I get such reaction for objecting to:
What part of that says anything other than I am ELITIST for wanting the same courtesy from an immigrant that they would expect from me in there former home?

How is learning another language Elitist, tho?

Huh?????

That's a spin and a half.

Pretty sure the argument by the libs has been "You are elitist jerk-off if you expect those poor, downtrodden, oppressed, ILLEGAL immigrants undocumented workers to learn English. Only an elitist would expect that from them rather than just changing their lives to be Spanish-based."