I can BARELY listen to the radio reports about the Israeli incursion. The situation absolutely disgusts me. Classic flame thrower response to a fly swatter size problem. I'm not a Hamas supporter, I do believe they brought this on themselves and to an extent on the Palestinian people. Israel is REALLY out of line and causing so much suffering, fear, and eventual radicalization of youth. Before everyone starts calling me an anti-Semite and a Nazi, please let me remind you (as our country needs to be reminded) that antisemitism and anti-Zionism are NOT the same thing. I have always equated and thought of Zionism as equivalent of Native Americans coming off the reservations with the world's governments at their backs and making all immigrant residents of the east coast disenfranchised second class citizens. This has been the position of the Palestinian people since the creation of Israel.

Set Israel's actions aside. My real anger is at our government for supporting, and arming the Israeli war machine as a proxy for fighting Iran as Iran is arming and supporting Hamas and Hezbollah as a proxy for fighting Israel. I really hope the Obama administration will CUT ISRAEL LOOSE. In all senses. No more financial and military support, and no more reins on their power. If they WANT a war with all of the Arab powers PLEASE just let them pick that fight. If they can't win it? Then they shouldn't be picking it. No jumping in at the last minute to help either side. These people WANT to fight, lets just let them and buy oil from the eventual winner. I'm not one of those people who believe that wars can't solve anything, they can, but there NEEDS to be a winner, and submission. Yes more people will die, yes one side will become drunk with new found power, but this never ending struggle will only lead to more struggle, more civilian death, more radicalism, and more war. Mr. Obama PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE...drop the leash, and cut the money.

I agree, but I have not much else to say. I hope Israel will be at least quick with the war.
Is it over yet? For some reason I can not find any map or any details where exactly the Israeli troops are standing.
Gaza is not that large a place, if the Israeli army is as invincible as they tend to claim it, the war should be over by now.

IMO This war will not end with Israel the victor, simply because they are pretty much hated by all their neighbors. Even if they occupied Gaza they will face a network of terror 10x as bad as what the US has had to face in Iraq.

I was just about to open this topic, you beat me.

A few thoughts:

I'm am pretty torn on this subject. Is the Israeli response massive, destructive and difficult to come to grips with? Yes, it absolutely is. But, I just don't think we can be so certain of our judgements when taking an outsiders stance. When I was in Israel, my friends in the army were constantly on the look out, constantly worried that the Arabs on the street may harm us. Now, that doesn't mean that those individuals were really someone to fear, but I think it's more than just racist hype from their side. I can't imagine what it's like to have to fear getting on a bus because maybe this one will blow up. I can't imagine HAVING to go into the army. I can't imagine having everyone around me hate me just because of my nationality or religion (that says a lot seeing as how I'm Jewish and American).

I support Israel. I understand that they are fed up with having to live in constant fear and constant fire. No, killing 5, 10 or 24 people isn't the same as 400. But... the attacks on Israel are random, they're aimed at civilians, they are aimed at causing terror and fear. The Israeli attacks have been directed. Of course, they've killed so many innocents that it doesn't really matter. How much weight should be put on intention vs. action?

There's a lot at stake, millions of lives, and there's a lot going on. I want this attack to end, I think that Israel could win this battle, they always win, but the price is too great. But I also think that they've reached a breaking point and need to see something done so they can feel safe too.

Oh, and I think it's pretty off to say Israel is picking the fights. They're over responding by leaps and bounds, but they aren't picking it.

Who's going to call you an anti-Semite? The whole freaking world agrees with you. Israel reacts to an ongoing attack, and the whole world looks down their noses at them.

Personally, I think that after you've provoked the lion (for years, no less), you really don't get to cry about what happens.

Not to say that Israel's reaction is justified. But, I can't say as I blame them that much.

I see the same issues here as in Iraq though, the more Israel attacks the WORSE things are going to get. They are creating more terrorists everyday as they kill civilians and cut off much needed aid. Really what needs to happen is a ceasefire, because things are going to get MUCH worse if this continues.
Hamas has not resorted to suicide bombing yet, but stories like this one are quite scary:

A true cease fire would be a beautiful thing, but during the last cease fire Hamas promised that they would just re-arm and Israel didn't attack until after they were fired upon. It would be naive of them to continuously grant cease fires, giving their opposition time to arm, then wait like sitting ducks for more Israeli's to be killed.

water rights...natural gas rights (israel has no domestic source of energy).

No matter the reasons given for war, the underlying reason is economic.

But we shouldn't forget the role played by the american crazy christianists and their eschatology-induced intoxication.

I believe the power of the false flag is insurmountable.

Isn't an occupation since 1967 a provocation? I'm not sure Israel wants peace since they continue building illegal settlement on palestinian soil.
Palestinians live in the gutter because of Israel.

Boycott Israel!

A female CNN journalist heard about a very old Jewish man who had been going to the Western Wall to pray, twice a day, every day, for a long, long time.

So she went to check it out. She went to the Western Wall and there he was, walking slowly up to the holy site.

She watched him pray and after about 45 minutes, when he turned to leave, using a cane and moving very slowly, she approached him for an interview.

'Pardon me, sir, I'm Rebecca Smith from CNN. What's your name?

'Morris Fishbein,' he replied.

'Sir, how long have you been coming to the Western Wall and praying?'*

'For about 60 years.'

'60 years! That's amazing! What do you pray for?'

'I pray for peace between the Christians, Jews and the Muslims.' I pray for all the wars and all the hatred to stop. I pray for all our children to grow up safely as responsible adults, and to love their fellow man.'

'How do you feel after doing this for 60 years?'

'Like I'm talking to a f**kin' wall.

good joke, but maybe not so funny for people living there...

I thought Israel would perform better. I thought they would occupy Gaza, crush all resistance, and give the Gaza strip away to perhaps the other Palestinian government, perhaps some nearby Arab nation (although I don't know who would want it).

What would you think if the Canadian or Mexican Governement started firing 1-20 rockets into the Northern or Southern part of the united Sates. Wouldn't you want big old Uncle Sam to crush them?

Of course, even thought the US is much bigger and stronger and would inflict more death, carnage and destruction? Of course you would.

Israel warned Hamas that they would retaliate if they didn't stop firing rockets into Israeli towns, schools and places of worship.

I say Israel should crush Hamas. After all it was the good people of Gaza that overwhelmingly voted in that terrorist organization, who's manadae it is to destroy the Jewish state. So they can't hide from that and they are responsible for this terror, unless you're calling the Palestinian people stupid and clueles about what Hamas stands for in the region.

What do you think would have happened to the US Civil War had the UN gotten involved? If England had the manpower and technology to 'stop the war' from continuing and simply divide the north and south?

Sometimes, conquering another group leads to a greater nation.

i support Israel jews want a small piece of land. they should have it. if u read the history will see how the Palestinies wriggled in

"Classic flame thrower response to a fly swatter size problem."

You can't blame Israel... they just happen to be the ones with the flame thrower rather than the fly swatter.

all you need to watch to get the full amazing story from a jewish scholar.

free palestine!



this video gives you actual accounts of history. Muslims came in the 7th century, WHEN NO JEWS WHERE THERE! THEY WERE WELCOMED BY THE PALESTINIANS, until the 20th century when the Palestinians started getting pushed out after the Jews started buying land out from under them.

watch the video.. hes smarter then my rhetoric.

how greater does Israel need to be?? its constantly expanding all the time and alot of its land is unpopulated!

what we need is peace, we don't need more bloodshed. Innocent people from Gaza deserve a chance, with peace.

If you were constantly being bombed by Israel, Hey! kinda like what we've been doing in Iraq to innocent people, weird the similarities. You would be retaliating with the best means possible too. Who's the real terrorists? These people have nothing, no homeland, but the land they still try to rest on. No economy, from a continuous occupation by Israel. It looks as if a genocide is going on with the jews again, yet they are the ones doing the killing.

America needs to stop supporting Israel, for these war crimes. Like we needed to do against Bush.


And on Obama, unfortunately hes gonna be another one of those guys that sucks the teets of a long NATO ally, because of his VP. He will feel to much pressure dropping Israel.

But maybe he will come around. Time Will Tell.

Similar things happen all the time. US purchased most of her territory. Obviously the US government will not see anything bad in purchasing land.
It is a different issue to push out potential tax payers. That is just simply stupid.