I know, this threads been going great for weeks now too :(

Maybe if we put the good stuff on a real high shelf....

/threadjack

Lol, that about sums it up

I've never seen, smelt, heard or touched gravity...yet I can't fly. As far as evidence of gravity, well that's in the eye of the beholder...you say that I can't fly is evidence. I say that's your interpretation, maybe I can't fly because of centrifugal force. One of us is right.

Actually I have thought more about this...God wants to be involved in the lives of everyone, and to some extent He is (you are alive at this moment...right?) You ask for evidence...how about the lady I knew who was blind (cataracts covered her eyes) and when she prayed the cataracts cleared...at that moment. Was that co-incidence? I've met that woman, I have seen her eyes, she has one spot on her eye with a cataract left (yet can see clearly). Is this the evidence you want? How about the evidence of the time 15 young men with Panga (like a machete...it's Africa we name things different here) came into our house and started to threaten our lives. My mother started to pray, the men locked us up into a room and started to steal from us. Now you may not be familiar with the African method of house invasion...you lock the family in the bathroom and move them out...without giving a forwarding address. These men could not move us out, because they were afraid of my mother's prayers. When they were gone they had taken three things we could not replace easily, my father's glasses (Africa remember) his Bible (it held important notes) and our car. Guess what returned? Evidence or are you discounting that? It happened to me.

How about this one? When my mother was 2 months pregnant with me she had German Measles (look it up...that's not good) then later Hepatitis (still not good). One doctor told her, "well that's it this baby is going to die...let's schedule an abortion". My mother agreed. The OBGyn said..."I hear a heart...let's wait until the baby dies before aborting". My mother believes in God...so she agreed to wait. Long story short, I lived. Again this is Africa, not the US or Canada or Europe where there is the medical staff to ensure a healthy delivery in rough circumstances. This is my most convincing evidence. I'm here.

So why do people die? God does not oppress us. How hypocritical are you to demand freedom, but demand that God not allow freedom for people to do bad things? You ever think that the bad things that happen are a result of the actions of others? Ah, you say, but natural disaster is bad. True. But evil exists is other realms. I can't really think that a true scientist would deny the possibility that other realms exist.

Is it morally OK to send people to hell? Not according to you. Is it morally Ok to send people to jail? Is it morally OK to fight back when you are attacked?
God set an absolute, and stands by it. He won't change because you don't like it.

How many times have you prayed and nothing "miraculous" has happened? I would be inclined to believe it is more times than the other way round.

It's like saying you were thinking about someone and they rang you on the phone, seems amazing luck until you look at the number of times that you think about the person and they don't call.

Coincidences surround us on a daily basis, you just attach God to these coincidences whereas some people do the same with horoscopes or lucky pennies. At the end of the day they are still only coincidence.

I've already answered the gravity argument you keep talking about.


So mine and yours existence and the fact that I'm alive is proof of a god to you? I honesty can't answer this with any seriousness


No, it's not evidence I want. I only have your word for it to begin with.

In answering this I'll do so on the premise that what you're saying is a proven, scientific reality.

We are imperfect and sinful because of Adam and Eve's sin right? That's the reason you've given for the imperfection and suffering we see today. If that's the case then why would god pick and choose who's cataracts to remove? My grandmother had terrible cataracts and she was a god-fearing, good, Christian woman all her life. I guess she just lucked out in the god lottery huh?


Superstitious fear affected the actions of some people? That's not evidence of any god or evidence of him intervening. Am I right in saying that many Africans are very superstitious?

Your mother heeded good, scientific medical advice. So?

How is allowing some people to die in horrific ways and yet answering the prayers of others count as god not oppressing us?

I don't demand anything of any gods, I don't believe they exist

I'm not sure what vague "other realms" have to do with natural disasters.

You're making a glaring mistake here, I don't blame god for anything, you can't blame that which doesn't exist. I argue that your belief of a loving, omnipresent, omnipotent being who picks and chooses who to heal, who to save and that threatens me with eternal torment for not believing in him and kissing his ass, is neither logical nor moral

Is it morally okay with you that I and millions like me who don't believe in any gods, not just your god but any, will suffer horrendous pain into eternity for the 'sin' of using reason and requesting proof of the things we believe?

I've never murdered, stolen, I'm a faithful husband, I help my neighbour, I'm a good father, I contribute to society. But because I happen to not believe in your god I burn in hell forever for not believing during my short time on earth?

If you find this morally acceptable then you are a warped, sick and twisted individual

If the punishment fits the crime yes. Torturing a person for eternity for a crime however would not be morally acceptable.

Again, your veiled threats on behalf of your sky daddy do nothing but make you a sad individual.

Just because you've chosen a concept of god that you happen to be comfortable with does not discount the thousands of other gods that other people believe in with as much conviction.

For your sake I hope that when you die you don't realise that it's actually Allah that is the true god. He's going to be pissed with you otherwise.

It seems it is turtle on the top as well:

Why's there a turtle atop that giant p3nis that's growing out of that mans head?

Centrifugal force.

That is just plain nonsense if God is omnipotent.

I think it is not a p3nis, it just looks like that from this angle. It must be something else. A p3nis between the head of an old man and a turtle would not make much sense.

LMFAO

Seriously, I have nothing to add

I do know that. Hey, most of the species around don't even have sex. Sex does not make much sense out of the context of evolution.

No, no it wouldn't

Heeeeeeyyyyyyyy, thats my line! LOL

I never said sharks are evil, or any other creature. I only said if there is God, he IS evil.

Pain and suffering as you said are human categories, and so is evil. For causing effects falling in the first two categories, he himself falls into the third.
As it is written in John's Revelations we are smarter than Him, so we can categorize him, confuse him and my guess would be we can solve even hyperbolic partial differential equation better than Him.
According to the Revelations, he can kill or torture any of us, but he has no power over the entire human race.

Can't we all just get along?

I has question about the Genesis myth.


When God ‘found out’ that the serpent had deceived Eve, He cursed him and commanded him to crawl on his belly from now on. Now, I take it that the ‘serpent’ was a snake. But Satan was only using the FORM of a snake for his purposes. Why curse an entire species of animal for something Satan did? And did this mean that snakes didn’t ‘crawl on their bellies’ before God cursed them?

Can't answer the why, but according to John Milton (of Paradise Lost renown), snakes didn't crawl before. He said they made themselves into a hoop and rolled. Where Mr Milton got this idea from, I've no idea.

FFs! That made me properly LOL!

Given the whole turtle thing, I thought this appropriate: