Herd instinct. Follow a common goal, defend your clan's resources against others. Increase your personal chances of survival in a group, thus strengthening your species in general.

When you say religion here, do you mean religions with holy books and all that, or would beliefs in nature spirits also count as religion? What people usually think of as religions have guidelines for moral behavior, whereas religions centered around nature spirits sometimes don't. For instance, Shinto doesn't really have the whole good vs evil conflict as we in the west think of it; they are more concerned with 'pollution' and 'defilement' than with 'evil'. Thats why tanners and leatherworkers had inferior status in that society for a long time, because their jobs made them smell 'polluted'.

I think that beliefs in nature spirits came first as man's natural explanation for what happened around them. The earthquake is caused by the earth moving, and man assumed that it moved on purpose. I think that the 'normal' religions came in later somehow, got added on top of the ancient beliefs, when nature turned into deities.

If this is so, we can be atheists and still believe in God and Jesus. we can still believe that Jesus saves us, because we are sinners and his story has the effect of saving us from our sins, it also makes clear that we are free of the ancestral sins, which is a relief in itself.
Terry Pratchett said: Just because you know several of the gods personally, it is no reason to go around believing in them. By the argument above the opposite is true. Just because you know there is no god or supernatural, that is not a reason not to believe in them. Anyways as interesting wrote:
belief can perform miracles. By the way, what Doggylives was referring to wasn't the "2nd car broke down" magnitude. I think Interesting is smart enough to come up with better examples, something like this would have been better:

I refuse to believe that the kid enjoys being injured or he deserved it. His injury might or might not be "humans' doing", there are so many naturally injured and maimed people that human ingenuity can never do damage on that magnitude. There were a few strong attempts, but still we are not the cause of most of our own troubles.

My point had nothing to do with the magnitude of the world's problems but by the belief of those effected by them. That child most likely lives (I'm going to guess by the colour of the skin and the hospital environment) in a country where over 80% of the population believe in God or some sort of hierarchy of gods. I am not trying to defend my personal belief in Jesus Christ as God...I don't think we are at that point in this discussion, I just am pointing out that a dis-belief in God usually comes from wealth and prosperity. And the common "bad things happen" reasoning really seems shallow to me.

Some help for those that need help keeping up with their prayers. For a fee of course.

InformationAgePrayer.com will "use state of the art text to speech synthesizers to voice each prayer at a volume and speed equivalent to typical person praying. Each prayer is voiced individually, with the name of the subscriber displayed on screen."

The good news is that Hail Mary's are only 7 cents each.

For Muslims the speakers will point towards Mecca.



This whole site is like something written by Father Guido Sarducci.

Money has nothing do with non-belief, it's the beliefs themselves that prevent acceptance.

Thats interesting. I always thought belief in God primarily came from insecurity. Good God fearing people are supposed to have strong faith.

*facepalm

Why the facepalm? If one believes in the effect of prayer, I don't see why an automated prayer shouldn't work just as well.

Is it because of the fee...?

It's just an updated version of the prayer wheel.
This method should have even more prayerful impact...you pay for it...thus a bigger sacrifice.

Of course you could just buy more expensive beads.

Plus, an electronic prayer is likely to be executed more accurately than an oral one - no mumbling, precise schedule etc.
It's actually a great idea. I almost wish I was religious, now that technology has made it that easy.

....oral prayer....

I hope you don't mind I read your comment about six times already, and I'm still not able to do so without giggling

Your mind has been corrupted by internet pr0n but that's OK.

Um...the point of prayer is relationship with God. Hence the facepalm. I recognize that if you don't believe in God you don't see this. But imagine for a minute that God exists, and wants to have a relationship with His creation. Do you think an automated machine would do it for you?
I think Jesus said it best (of course) in Matthew 6:6
If you keep reading that chapter Jesus talks about different "programs" for prayer.
So yes...facepalm...people are just missing the point.

Hmmm, I believe the point that's being missed here is the solitary source believers have for comments relating to the mythology of the Bible is.....quotes from the Bible.

That seems like a requisite facepalm too.

the point being the believers and the non-believers are just as presumptuous and arrogant in their knowledge?

No one knows the answer. You can speculate and hope and believe, or not. Everyone gets the answer at the end of the class. Which reminds me...


I have a serious problem with faith based education. Maybe that should be another thread.

Sorry...you missed my quotes from the Bible? Interesting.

It's a coping mechanism. Personifying or deifying the natural world makes it a bit easier to deal with and accept.

For some people, the thought that lightening could just strike anyone at random is overwhelmingly frightening, so it's easier to assume those who might get struck have angered the lightening god.

I can easily understand where this sort of belief began. I'm guilty of it myself after spending prolonged periods in the wilderness. Imagining that the weather is controlled by a fickle goddess who will invariably send rain only on days when I've left my raingear behind makes it the situation a bit easier than believing that it's all just random.

I think "religion" evolved much as other clubs function and evolve. To be "in" and have a better chance of survival, it was beneficial to believe in whichever gods were popular. If you didn't, you were outcast and suffered diminished chances of survival.

I'll have to admit I don't understand this comment. I missed your Bible quotes???

Quotes from the Bible in responding to a doubt/question about religion are irrelevant. In fact I consider the entire Bible irrelevant.

It's a mythological piece of work that was not written by "God" nor Jesus. It was written many, many years after the "fact" by the few literate monks living at the time who could say/write anything they wanted without any regard for evidence. It is essentially hearsay.

The story is not remarkable at all since it bears resemblance to many other religious myths.

The Bible is constructed of tales that have been cherry-picked by Christians to eliminate inclusion of any undesirable stories that may cast Christianity in a poorer light. Although the ones that have survived the censorship do that job pretty well all by themselves.

The point here is that we don't have actual discussions about religion, we have a carousel like set of comments where one side asks questions about religion and the other side simply throws Bible quotes into the mix, it's a constant circle of non-information.

All the comments I've made in various threads about religion are my own personal beliefs. I'm an atheist because there is nothing I've ever seen, read or heard has ever indicated to me that there is a supernatural force that is at work in our universe. In fact as we learn more about the universe my convictions have become stronger.

It is a mistake for believers to think that atheists are simple souls that just haven't read "The Word." I think that most atheists have likely given more thought to religion before making their decision than many believers that accepted whatever their parents told them. As I said, these are my personal thoughts, formed after many years of considering alternatives.

I understand they conflict with yours. I can live with that.

Although I'm sure that there is a Bible verse that covers that too.

No you don't. How could you? You will be dead. You won't even know you are dead, because you will be dead, and you will know nothing.

Can nothing exist?