I was hoping more to stress that the conception that the original Hebrew is specifically murder is both common and mis-.

(As well as the limited number of Hebrew speaking Christians who don't use a KJV derived translation).

How to pick your own God
:D

yes KJV uses 'kill' in exodus, but as pointed out it used 'murder' in Matthew. Also KJV is just one of many translations. It is widely used partially because of the strength of the British empire (and probably also due to the fact that it is so old that it is no longer copyrighted in most countries), but that doesn't make it more accurate - even if you disregard how it contradicts itself. Many translations used murder instead of kill in both books. In fact the New King James uses murder

I was always told that
retzach means murder for the most part
haron means kill for the most part
however I am no Hebrew scholar. Perhaps one of the Hebrew speaking plimates can join in?

You're right, many catholics use bibles that use 'kill' (many protestants use bibles that say 'murder') However most catholics like most people just assume that there are obviously times when killing is justified. They understand it isn't a blanket statement. Hell, the commandments also dictate that there are no other gods than God, yet catholics pray to Mary and untold numbers of "saints".

In any case as long as we kill .0000000000001% of the people God killed or commanded to be killed we are probably okay.

It's a friggin wish list!

Also, pick a god? What is this, horse racing?

I have an image now of God on the day of reckoning with an abacus flicking beads about, sucking air in over his teeth and saying "It's pretty close to my thresholds, mate. Tell you what - hang around over there, look as pious as you can, say a few Hail Mary's and I'll see if I can sneak you in once the rush has died down."

In general with what you said though, Catholics don't call Mary and the Saints Gods. They're more middle management. And I think if Christians are going to have some sort of Credo it's got to be all or nothing. You can't have dispensations (even at lent) otherwise it becomes a free for all.

Same with civil laws. Speeding is a crime. There's no "unless" in there.

So far though yours is really the only justification that touches on making sense and it boils down to hazy semantics rather than a clear moral guideline.

If the case for state sanctioned murder in a predominantly Christian country is "I think what God meant..." then I'm not convinced just yet.

Life in prison doesn't mean they can't continue to be heinous. They can kill in prison. And they could escape.
And then you get the "life in prison" plus parole equals out in x years.

I don't normally frequent this thread, I am glad I came back in here.

Guess what Doggy? YES. You hit it EXACTLY on the head. It's ironic that such a devout atheist nailed it so well.

What you describe is EXACTLY the point. We are ALL IMPERFECT and none of us deserve paradise...BUT God will forgive us all of EVERYTHING if we but ask. It's that easy, yes.

And I have no problem putting to legal, mankind based judgment someone who does any crime, and meting out punishment. I do not judge their soul. They have just as much opportunity for forgiveness as I do. Everyone does.

The blanket forgiveness is open to all...Ted Bundy, me, Hitler, the guys who flew the 9-11 planes, you...they all could gain His forgiveness and reward if they but repent and ask for forgiveness. Seriously.

This is f**king awesome!

I can do what the f**k I want all day long, I can live a unproductive, s**tty life and say sorry just before I die and I'm going to heaven (Actually I don't want to go to heaven but that's another point).

What makes me have a bit of a sad though is that Joe Bloggs who's lived his life being a good character, helped people out, being good to his family and neighbours, gives to charity and has lived a good productive life will go to hell/not have forgiveness becasue he can't reasonably and logically find it in himself to beleive in a god who's never shown himself.


BUT, and it's a big but, the guy across the road who's abused his kids since they were born, lied, cheated, stolen and being a gigantic a*****e will be forgiven, have an amazing afterlife if he just says sorry and ask god for forgiveness.


meh, doesn't make sense still.

No.

There's a profound difference between a life sentence and sentenced to life in prison.

Technically yes, but there is the little wrinkle of not knowing when you will die.

Please explain this. Given the choice, why would anyone not choose paradise? I think you really mean you don't believe in Heaven.

None of it is based on our actions or good works. None of that matters. It is the believing repentance and asking forgiveness that makes or breaks it.

There is a literary assistant available. I am betting you know which one.

So logically following this if I judge that someone is no longer fit to physically walk the earth I can kill them confident in the knowledge that their soul is going on to an awesome place

Also after I've killed them I can ask for forgiveness to cover my ass too.

What if someone is sentenced to death and they aren't "right with god"? You've condemned their soul too :(

Maybe they'd have found god if they'd lived a bit longer.

So how can you sentence someone to death in good conscience when you don't know if they've had chance to repent, therefore condemning their souls as well.

Because when I die, I just want to stop existing. What if my kids or wife don't join me in paradise? Plus I don't want to be somewhere awesome watching them grieve over me, it'd break my heart. Kind of like mental torment.

Suppose I'm in heaven chilling and being all angely and I see someone raping my wife or murdering one of my kids and I can't do anything to help?

No thanks, I'll take the big sleep option thanks.

Again, I can be a behave like a total a*****e, kill, rape, fiddle with kids all my life and go to heaven as long as I'm sorry and believe in god sometime before I die BUT I could live my life doing good deeds, being productive but becasue I don't say sorry to a god I can't believe in I'm going to hell

Makes no sense to me

Yup, that makes no sense either

I think this is called wishful thinking. I'm not saying it is wrong to believe in your wishful thinkings, but you could believe just as well in God making you perfect after death AND giving you the opportunity to go back in time and create him.
I bet there are people who would like this idea of afterlife.

They have had a chance. They will have MORE chances before the end. You have to admit it is near impossible in today's world to not have at least heard of this Mr. Jesus. And yes, I know that there are some amount of people in today's world who haven't at the very least heard about it. I don't have an answer about them...because I never claimed to have all the answers. So I dunno what happens to the guy that lives in the deep Amazon rain forest and never heard of Jesus. But I do know about me and my belief.

Well what we WANT is not often in the choices available to us. Again, this seems more like you don't believe than choosing the alternative. The big sleep isn't an option that is open IMO.

Well the ending to Lost In Translation made no sense to me, but that has no bearing on what the director did. I'm not anyone who enforces His rules by any means. I'm just pointing those rules out. Jesus told a parable about the workers who all start at different times but get the same wage in the end. God is the master, who are we to argue with His judgment as to how He hands out rewards?

Oh. So my free will goes out the window when I die?

So basically my options are A) Go to heaven and be mentally tortured B) Go to hell and be physically AND mentally tortured

F*ck, I'm screwed whatever I do

Well according to you we can't. I can just strongly disagree with his rules and methods and morality and take what's coming to me.

The more I hear the more I think "Wow, god's a bullying a*****e"

I'm just happy I don't believe in this particular god.

I think your body stays here. You can not be physically tortured without your body.

Oh, right. That's pretty sweet then. So it's just the mental torture then?

Wow, this is all very confusing

Some faiths don't follow the free will boat.

Which is great for you. You have no choice but to hang on to the religion issues like an alligator with a catch; once your jaws lock, you have no choice but to hang on.

Your definitions are not necessarily correct. To paraphrase: "There will be no more pain or death and God will wipe away every tear."
Call me crazy but I am missing the mental torture you refer to.

Whatever. We both know we could play this game for years.

Over and out for now.