With life comes hope.

I can always hope.

If they are human inventions how come animals suffer, kill and some of them habitually rape too?
It seems to me these bad things are in nature, deeply embedded in the basic rules.
Hey, God did the same things every now and then, at least according to the Bible. So it is not human invention. If you believe to the Revelation of John the Creator even raped Eve.
She bore two sons.
Elohim was the name of the first.
Yahweh was the name of the second.
Elohim has a bear’s face.
Yahweh has a cat’s face.
One is righteous;
One is not.
Yahweh is righteous;
Elohim is not.
Yahweh would command fire and wind
Elohim would command water and earth.

The Creator deceptively named the two: Cain and Abel.

We call it rape, because that is how we understand it.

A horrific, violent encounter in an alleyway and the violent mating rituals of the Tasmanian Devil are only similar in our eyes.

To us it is cruel. To them it is sex.

The twisted power struggle that rape is to humans, it isn't to lions. They just want to get into the gene pool.

As for pain, all it is, is an extension of the survival instinct. It hurts to show us we are in danger.



As with so many other things, it all depends on how you look at it.

A small rat being slowly digested alive is horrible to us.

It is survival to the one doing the digesting.


Shortly thereafter, one killed the other over some sheep.

Humans are cruel and jealous creatures.

No. It is not sex. Rape is always about POWER. Never about sex. There isn't even sense in having sex with anything not fertile. (one male the other, a dead animal, an animal of other species, an animal under the age of fertility, etc...) By the way I am talking about animals here not humans. Still, even among humans rape is primarily about power not about sex.

Except to those animals that use forced sex to get into the gene pool.

For them, it's about sex, that being sexual reproduction.

He example I used, Tasmanian Devils, their reproductive cycle revolves around what we would call rape.

Females are forced into the male's nests and physically kept there and raped until the female is no longer in heat.

It's how they attempt to ensure that the next generation is theirs.

No, there doesn't appear to be. But I'll tell you, ascribing human characteristics and morality onto animals is exactly as impossible as ascribing human characteristics and morals onto a divine being.

Among humans, rape is always about power.

I said, lemme find it:

Which is true.

I doubt that the animals actually know what the gene pool is. It might be about power for them, but it only has the effect of putting them into the gene pool, as they don't consciously seek to do that.

No, but reproducing is one of the singular strongest instincts there is, right next to eating.

Meh. every time I see this thread and read the title "God Matters" I want to post: No he doesn't.


I have now so I won't have to think it every time I see the thread.

But they still don't know that that is what they are after, its just an instinct for them, not purposeful, thought out stuff.

Which means that the actions themselves can hardly be called evil, can they.

By God's effect in one's life. For instance, (like I think I mentioned) I myself have had serious struggles with parts of my life, but after God essentially gave me a breakthrough moment, and things just sort of snowballed from there, it was more or less instant solution. And I don't mean I had a basic "aha" moment or suddenly was able to put my life together, but it was intimately married with spiritual experiences, many of which I would call visions (though not hallucinogenic style, but in prayer). It was so instant, and so directed, and tied so much into God's indications (like when you talk with someone in front of you, and they say they'll give you a book, and then they hand it to you, it was that direct), that it basically made me re-evaluate a lot of the doubt I had in God.

I have seen similar situations happen with others, and with my friends. These things happen, and they reinforce my faith, and their faith, and help deepen the relationship. Of course it's a personal experience, though, and it would be hard to ask you to believe in my personal experience, if you had not had such an experience. But, this is what I have seen and felt, and so it brings me closer to God as anything like this would bring me closer to any other person I have a relationship with.

How did God, personally, give you this moment?

Are you absolutely sure you didn't do it yourself?

Because at that point in my life, I gave up trying. I seriously just gave up. It was literally through no effort of mine that it happened, and I had been putting through a lot of effort in the previous years.

But it happened, and it had to come from somewhere. I barely even thought it would help much to pray, it had become routine at that point. But God worked, in me and through others, in me, and (without going into many details), I really can see no other obvious way to describe it. The simplest explanation simply seems to be that it came from God.

Actually, I'd think that the simplest explanation is that you did it all yourself, and the numbers handled everything you weren't in direct control of.

Attributing it to a higher power is easier, in my opinion, not simpler.

Let me be more succinct.

It's very very easy to believe that you have no control over your life, to assume that a higher power can and will direct your actions.

This, to me, is dangerous thinking, as it shrugs personal responsibility.

If God did it, then you are neither in the right or the wrong. It wasn't you. It was God. Any harm or good done is no longer your fault or credit. It was God.

Not man, God. Man has, therefore, no responsibility, as any good or ill he does is either down to God or the Devil, and not his own actions.

But if God did this, God did everything. If God is active, if God has the capacity to care about what happens, then DoggyLives is correct, and God is a b*****d.

If God directed you to your path, that means God also ignores pain and suffering and permits horrific things to happen daily.

You cannot attribute God responsibility for the good that has happened to you without also accepting God's responsibility for every evil ever committed.

Otherwise, why are you so special that he directed you, but not me? Why did you deserve to be saved, where others fall?

It can't be because "I am not open to God", that doesn't make sense. If God wanted me to love him, how could I possibly refuse?

God, an omnipotent being that can create life and consciousness can be stymied by a stubborn atheist? The atheist cannot be touched by God because he doesn't want to be? And yet God is capable of crafting consciousness?

This is why I say it is simpler that you did it yourself.

To say God did it is easier, but extremely complex, as the notion opens many, many very ugly and very complicated questions.

That is all.

I'm pretty much done here I think. I've repeatedly asked Interesting what makes him so special that a god saves his life many times and chooses to let millions of innocent other people die each year. He gives no answer even though I've asked 3 times now.

I've asked you before why god singles you out to prove his existence to even though you say you weren't searching for him and had given up hope. Why does god answer your prayers when he ignores the plight of others.

Oh and if you're going to use some ambiguous, wishy-washy excuse like, "It's part of gods plan" or something akin to, "god works in mysterious ways" then don't bother.

((hell, i had a point with this post but it got lost in the editing.))

*jazz hands!*

*edit by DL, here ya go*

No, I deleted this for a reason.

Keep your hands off my words.

But I'm not looking for answers personally, I'm wondering how someone like Interesting can assert that there is a god as a fact and then back that up with 'evidence' that files in the face of logic and reason.

I want to hear from him how he equates in his head the fact that god looks after him personally while letting others die and live far worse lives than he has.

You've answered with logic and reason and I surmise the same as you XV, that the reason why people ignore facts, logic and reason is because it's comfortable for then to do so, which is fine but don't try to argue or debate god's existence based on what's comfortable for you to believe whilst blatantly ignoring reason and reality.

I'm down with anyone believing what they want but when you start telling me that god does exist whether I believe he does or not and that if I don't play by the rules I know what to expect (Which is threatening me with hell without having the balls to say it) then you better have some damn good answers and reasons to make such an assertion. Otherwise you just look like an ass.

It's more than just comfort:

we are each at the center of our own little universes and it is lonely in here.

if God is watching, we are never alone.

Not lonely when you have friends and family. If you don't have that though I can see how inventing imaginary friends helps.