Lol, calm down. I was agreeing with you. :)

the participation in sports and activities is still something that we do here in the US but it has declined and also the type of activity has changed. now kids do not compete as much for fear of someone having to loose and that might hurt their feelings. parents have become either over protective and don't let their kids live and learn or almost non existent in their kid's life.

my main point was that it served as a controlled way to release frustration and anger and with out this mechanism it builds up to a point of explosion.

I do not think that this is the cause of increased violence and problems. Back in medieval times and roman times people were pretty violent as well and society was entertained by watching public executions and gladiator fights etc. I think it's too easy to blame it on video games and movies.
I do tend to agree with these reasons. Almost all animals exhibit "lemming-like" actions when the population reaches a certain level, what would make us so different?

I think maybe the increase of media and the world getting smaller is creating the illusion of events like this increasing. Of course 20 years ago there weren't shootings at schools and stuff, but the world is changing fast, and I think "atrocious" events are just being publicised more.

And now my head has switched off, so I'll leave it at that.

Just to be a nit-picking smartass - lemmings actually don't commit mass suicides, they just migrate when their population exhausts the resources of the area they live in. They are cute, but stupid little critters and think the ocean is just another river to swim across. Disney documented the lemmings swimming out to sea, but falsely concluded it was a mass suicide.

Otherwise, I partly agree with your comments :)

I was actually thinking exactly that when I read rambler's comment, but then the only alternative I could think of was rats, and I'd rather compare myself with lemmings than rats :D

It's exactly that stupid fear of competition that I've seen happening in Europe, that scares me too. I mean, isn't LIFE competitive? Are kids supposed to learn about that AFTER leaving school?

Ehhh ... thanks for pointing out my error, there.

Now I can say that man does not copy suicidal lemmings, but that we copy little stupid animals who think they're migrating to another place on earth, but end up migrating to MUCH further away...

I agree with you completely here, but I think the problem is two-fold.

Competitive sports are excellent ways to spend extra energy and I think it teaches some fundamental lessons about life - you do better if you cooperate with others (teamwork), and sometimes even your absolute best just isn't good enough. You learn how to graciously accept a win, and how to learn from a mistake or a defeat. With these sports being taken out of the curriculum, not only are children missing out on this, but they don't develop the sporting skills that help vent out built-up frustration. When I'm really angry about something, I find a run calms me down, the angrier I am, the longer I'll run.

The other thing I've noticed more recently is the behaviour of parents at their children's sporting games. I've seen far to many moms or dads jump up and yell at the ref/ump for making, in their opinion, a bad call. I've seen parents try and get physical with refs after hockey games - one dad tried to punch out the ref because a controversial penalty cost his kids' team the game.
What does this action tell kids?
If you feel you were treated unfairly, don't bother being civil about it, go ahead and treat people however you want. If something angers you, take it out on the person/thing that angered you.
Now, take that lesson and apply it to life (which, at times, is cruel and unfair) and what do you think you get?

This is just a mental aberration on the part of the murderer. Everyone is desperate for explinations and something to lay the blame on, but really it's nothing more complex than that. It's a mental health issue, not a gun issue.

Exactly, great minds think alike!

As much as I love to use the "Parents should be Parents" argument myself, here I disagree.

Schools have become havens for well meaning but misguided individuals that beleive more in self esteem than in education.

For example, when my son was in High School, we attended one of his wrestling matches. The "Pep" squad was hanging signs for the upcoming Varsity Basketball game. They all said things like "We are all winners" and "Hooray for (the other team)". We (A very large group of parents) were baffled. When we asked, we were told that the school didn't allow cheering for just one team because that was "bad sportsmanship".

This was just one example of many over the years. Not only are our children being taught that the other teams feelings mean more than competition, team/school spirit or winning and that it is wrong to cheer for your group.

No wonder these kids grow up with no sense of belonging, or ability to cope. Those that do not have parents that actively opposed these ideas must have had a rude shock on their first job.

[smart-ass trivia buff holier-than-thou attitude]

Actually the way I heard the story was that Disney actually herded them off a cliff. See here.

[/smart-ass trivia buff holier-than-thou attitude]

Edit: I got all smarmy, then screwed up the link. LOL

Well put. It isn't just sports, it is the life tools they learn from sports.

When I was a kid this was unthinkable. If my friends or I had complained about a call we would have gotten, at the very least, a lecture from our parents (and possibly much worse). Even if it was a bad call. The problem was seen as one of our attitude, not the call. For a parent to object to a call (unless he was the coach) was UNTHINKABLE, as civilized people didn't behave like that. For there to be violence in the stands was not even imagined, as how can I enjoy my kids game if I am fighting.

I was taught sportsmanship and teamwork this way. I taught my children the same way. I now have adults that are trustworthy, hardworking, and that take responsibility for their actions.

[Up on my soapbox, ranting]

Unfortunately, another problem with teaching by "self-esteem" is that teaching by "self-esteem" also means that you have been told all your life that YOUR self esteem is MOST important. Now, two generations (or more) into this folly we have a nation of "Not my fault" and "YOU should be more concerned about ME". And they are passing it down to their kids.

Rather than this being a case of little Johnny learns that sportsmanship includes accepting that some calls that go against you, it has become a case of "My little Johnny's self esteem has been attacked" and now you have a parent running purely on "protect my child" mode.

[/Up on my soapbox, ranting]

There had to be at least one of the victims that was a horrible asshat and is in Hell (assuming such a place exists)....

Excuse me, but I have to ask: What exactly is the point of that question? Trying to be funny?

I didn't ask any questions but I'll explain my statement a little better for you...

This part:
means that there are a lot of "sinners" in this world. Being a victim of a shooting doesn't automatically make you go to Heaven. People tend to assume the best of innocent victims ('innocent' in this context meaning that they were random victims and were not targeted, not that they never committed a crime).

And this part:
I added on because I am very non-Christian and do not believe in the Christian hell.

Don't take that statement and try to make it sound like I'm heartless, because I'm not. I do feel awful for the families of the victims and for what that campus must be going through.

Well that's very possible, I suppose. Interesting take. :)

Okay maybe I'm reviving this topic that should stay down, but I had a thought of summarizing some things.

I think we all agree this happens more in Northern America than in Europe and other places.

In Europe (The Netherlands to be specific) we have other weird problems. Here we have a new concept called "Reasonless Violence". Basically people getting killed for no reason (individuals) are big here right now. It doesn't happen very often, but when it does, the whole country goes into a depression. Over here they have these remembrance walks where the whole town (99% of whom didn't even know the person) walk with candles down the street for a night. Someone bumps their car, they get a bunch of flowers to make sure they feel better. A teacher shouts at a kid in class, the whole PTA goes to school to complain.

I think what this means is that society as a whole is changing. Guns or not, it's a problem in society (as the thread says) that's becomming too loose and too liberal. People are supposed to be grown up at age 12, but they can still sleep in their parents' bed at age 8 for example. That does not make sense.

People like the VA killer use this nature of society to their advantage. He was definately not 100% healthy in his head, but if society didn't act like this, he wouldn't have thought about the big impact it would have. He achieved his goal. The whole world is taking about him. The whole world is analysing the situation and stuff.

Where does gun control come into this issue? It doesn't. The guns he used had the serials filed off. I think that clearly shows they were gotten by illegal means. That can happen in any country.

In South Africa, where I'm from, society still has a bit more values. Children are brought up with a lot of manners and you don't have the liberal views we have here in Europe. Guns are easy to buy there. EVERY single family I know there has at least one gun, usually more. But this sort of thing doesn't happen there. You have normal crime (a lot of it though) but no mass killings or these "Statement-killings".

Did I just reach my point or did I lose myself?