Scientology on Trial in France for Organized Financial Fraud : RSS 2.0http://www.plime.com/en-usplime.com2009, plime.com.Plime/1http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rssScientology on Trial in France for Organized Financial Fraud : RSS 2.0http://www.plime.com/images/logo.gifhttp://www.plime.com/<![CDATA[Scientology on Trial in France for Organized Financial Fraud]]>
*and hopefully the rest of the world will follow suit - literally]]>http://www.plime.com/plime-com/l/117105/1/http://www.plime.com/plime-com/l/117105/1/plime.com
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<![CDATA[DoggySpew @ 5/26/2009 1:05:56 PM]]>« tragluk : Perhaps Pock, but even the Catholics sell (or used to sell) Indulgences. The Mormons ask their members to contribute 10% for tithing. The 'plate gets passed' for some Christian churches.

The only difference between a cult and a religion is it's acceptance in the mainstream.

Honestly this sounds to me like...

"Hey, give us $10,000 and you'll go to heaven."
"Ok, here's $10,000."

--5 months later--

"Um.. I was stupid and I want my money back."
"We've already spent it."
"Then I'll sue you, get my money back, and call you people who Prey on the stupid."
"Ok, stupid."


It's extortion. Give me money or I'll get your church banned from my country. I don't know why they gave that much money to this organization to begin with. I don't know why other people donate millions of dollars a year to Christianity. I don't call Christians an evil organization bent on world domination though. (Even WITH their past history of trying to do exactly that.)


Make no mistake, I don't believe in Scientology. There are many things I don't believe in that I feel shouldn't exist but when others believe in it so strongly that they are willing to devote their lives to it who am I to say that kind of faith is psychosis?

Or paraphrasing.. "I may not believe in what you say, but I'll defend your right to say it."Not quite the same. I can't remember anytime in church they wouldn't allow you to hear the "word of God" if you did not donate.
That's what Scientology does.

Scientology is not banned because of religion, it is because of their criminal activity. Something the US fails to do something about.]]>http://www.plime.com/l/117105/1/rss2_0.rss#q13http://www.plime.com/l/117105/1/rss2_0.rss#q13plime.com <![CDATA[JoshSF49 @ 5/26/2009 9:13:46 AM]]>
That being said, a religion is a religion, and I'm with Tragluk 100% of the way.]]>http://www.plime.com/l/117105/1/rss2_0.rss#q12http://www.plime.com/l/117105/1/rss2_0.rss#q12plime.com <![CDATA[makri @ 5/26/2009 9:10:37 AM]]>« 
Or paraphrasing.. "I may not believe in what you say, but I'll defend your right to say it."None of the Scientology trials ever in any country have been about their faith.

It's a criminal organization/financial scheme who's trying to label itself as a religion as some sort of "get away with murder" card.

There are tons of people who are ready to jump up and scream in defence of whatever vile murderous group as long as they remember to staple the word "religion" on top of their criminal activities. And that is why they can keep on operating for decades without much interference.]]>http://www.plime.com/l/117105/1/rss2_0.rss#q11http://www.plime.com/l/117105/1/rss2_0.rss#q11plime.com <![CDATA[tragluk @ 5/26/2009 8:46:45 AM]]>
The only difference between a cult and a religion is it's acceptance in the mainstream.

Honestly this sounds to me like...

"Hey, give us $10,000 and you'll go to heaven."
"Ok, here's $10,000."

--5 months later--

"Um.. I was stupid and I want my money back."
"We've already spent it."
"Then I'll sue you, get my money back, and call you people who Prey on the stupid."
"Ok, stupid."


It's extortion. Give me money or I'll get your church banned from my country. I don't know why they gave that much money to this organization to begin with. I don't know why other people donate millions of dollars a year to Christianity. I don't call Christians an evil organization bent on world domination though. (Even WITH their past history of trying to do exactly that.)


Make no mistake, I don't believe in Scientology. There are many things I don't believe in that I feel shouldn't exist but when others believe in it so strongly that they are willing to devote their lives to it who am I to say that kind of faith is psychosis?

Or paraphrasing.. "I may not believe in what you say, but I'll defend your right to say it."]]>http://www.plime.com/l/117105/1/rss2_0.rss#q10http://www.plime.com/l/117105/1/rss2_0.rss#q10plime.com <![CDATA[pocksucket @ 5/26/2009 6:53:35 AM]]>« tragluk : 

It's either ALL religions are free, or NO religion is. There is no middle ground. Once someone in power starts dictating what you are allowed to have as your faith, the only faith that will be left is the one of those in power.You initially make the mistake of describing Scientology as a religion. It's not.

And even if it were, then that does not give them licence to break established laws.

Fraud is fraud, no matter what or whose name you carry it out in. If any organisation carries out activities that go against the law of a particular land then they must either alter their activities within the borders of that land or accept the consequences.

If the French case goes in favour of the plaintiffs then this will not be religious persecution, but a ruling based on law.

If the CoS were to modify its behaviour in France, conforming to French law then no doubt they would be able to carry on.

If you think about what you said but substitute "business" for "organised religion" you'll see where I say the fundamental flaw in your rationale is.]]>http://www.plime.com/l/117105/1/rss2_0.rss#q9http://www.plime.com/l/117105/1/rss2_0.rss#q9plime.com <![CDATA[greenfourth @ 5/26/2009 2:33:33 AM]]>
I believe that we cannot ban religions and still maintain that we are a nation of free thought.

HOWEVER, when it comes to CULTS that prey on the weak-minded in order to line their pockets with another's livelihood aren't we obligated to make certain that those involved aren't being cheated out of their hard-earned money?

ON the other hand where do we draw the line? If we look at christian churches, for example, almost all of them pass that little dish around during services and that goes straight to the church, no taxes on it either. Granted, for the most part that gets spread back through the community for the less fortunate but not ALL. And sometimes we can see (in some cases, not all) the more corrupt churches keep a large portion for themselves and make a VERY comfortable living.

The point? I'm not even sure, there's too many facets to an issue such as this to be talked about in length in such a venue.]]>http://www.plime.com/l/117105/1/rss2_0.rss#q8http://www.plime.com/l/117105/1/rss2_0.rss#q8plime.com <![CDATA[bornbad @ 5/26/2009 12:16:54 AM]]>« tragluk : NO NO a HUNDRED TIMES NO.

France doesn't like their beliefs and organization, so they kick them out. Isn't that what Germany started with the Jewish?

I don't believe in what they do, but dammit I'm not going to support ANY oppression of organized religion. Where does it stop?

Oh THEY'RE bad, YOU'RE not. RIGHT! That makes it ok for the French to ban THEM.

And when do they move onto Baptists? How about Mormons? Some people disagree with Seventh Day Adventists... Islam? Isn't that the Religion that has the terrorists?!

Where does it stop?

Unfortunately some people actually believe in the rather humorous satire which Equinox posted above. That type of fearmongering and short sightedness is what leads to government control of religion.

It's either ALL religions are free, or NO religion is. There is no middle ground. Once someone in power starts dictating what you are allowed to have as your faith, the only faith that will be left is the one of those in power.Try adblock.com]]>http://www.plime.com/l/117105/1/rss2_0.rss#q7http://www.plime.com/l/117105/1/rss2_0.rss#q7plime.com <![CDATA[bornbad @ 5/26/2009 12:16:07 AM]]>« equinox : Last month Scientology ads were popping up on one of my websites. Horrified, I logged into Google Adsense to block them and was suddenly struck with the sickening realization that a scientologist from inside Google would probably be comprising lists of people who did exactly this - just so their cult could take vengeance upon them. Because this is how they operate.

My fear might sound silly, but having been once before in my life on the "enemies" list of a cult, where they managed to severely compromise my business, slander me, poison my dog and various other painful exploits I have no eagerness to be victimized again.

The world free of "crime and war" this greed-bound cult espouses is founded upon deception, mind-control, profound peer pressure, subjugation of will, elitism and a desire for global domination by any means necessary.

Their back-story is laughably filled with holes and inventions that even a single evening of review can bring glaringly to light. Leaving those with severely limited intellect and lots of money, like Tom Cruise, as their favored targets.

If.. their beliefs and practices carry any merit and would result in a crime and war free world.. Why.. are they not provided free of charge.. instead of for tens and twenty thousands of dollars, usually every penny their victim can pull together by selling everything they own. I wonder.. if Mr. Cruise had been asked to fork over the same percentage of annual income to gain his exalted rank if he would ever have become involved. I doubt it, but he is pretty stupid. So who knows.]]>http://www.plime.com/l/117105/1/rss2_0.rss#q6http://www.plime.com/l/117105/1/rss2_0.rss#q6plime.com <![CDATA[tragluk @ 5/26/2009 12:07:04 AM]]>
France doesn't like their beliefs and organization, so they kick them out. Isn't that what Germany started with the Jewish?

I don't believe in what they do, but dammit I'm not going to support ANY oppression of organized religion. Where does it stop?

Oh THEY'RE bad, YOU'RE not. RIGHT! That makes it ok for the French to ban THEM.

And when do they move onto Baptists? How about Mormons? Some people disagree with Seventh Day Adventists... Islam? Isn't that the Religion that has the terrorists?!

Where does it stop?

Unfortunately some people actually believe in the rather humorous satire which Equinox posted above. That type of fearmongering and short sightedness is what leads to government control of religion.

It's either ALL religions are free, or NO religion is. There is no middle ground. Once someone in power starts dictating what you are allowed to have as your faith, the only faith that will be left is the one of those in power.]]>http://www.plime.com/l/117105/1/rss2_0.rss#q5http://www.plime.com/l/117105/1/rss2_0.rss#q5plime.com <![CDATA[equinox @ 5/25/2009 10:50:20 PM]]>
My fear might sound silly, but having been once before in my life on the "enemies" list of a cult, where they managed to severely compromise my business, slander me, poison my dog and various other painful exploits I have no eagerness to be victimized again.

The world free of "crime and war" this greed-bound cult espouses is founded upon deception, mind-control, profound peer pressure, subjugation of will, elitism and a desire for global domination by any means necessary.

Their back-story is laughably filled with holes and inventions that even a single evening of review can bring glaringly to light. Leaving those with severely limited intellect and lots of money, like Tom Cruise, as their favored targets.

If.. their beliefs and practices carry any merit and would result in a crime and war free world.. Why.. are they not provided free of charge.. instead of for tens and twenty thousands of dollars, usually every penny their victim can pull together by selling everything they own. I wonder.. if Mr. Cruise had been asked to fork over the same percentage of annual income to gain his exalted rank if he would ever have become involved. I doubt it, but he is pretty stupid. So who knows.]]>http://www.plime.com/l/117105/1/rss2_0.rss#q4http://www.plime.com/l/117105/1/rss2_0.rss#q4plime.com <![CDATA[psycmoe @ 5/25/2009 10:02:45 PM]]>
I really need a .gif.]]>http://www.plime.com/l/117105/1/rss2_0.rss#q3http://www.plime.com/l/117105/1/rss2_0.rss#q3plime.com <![CDATA[bornbad @ 5/25/2009 8:14:26 PM]]>"organised fraud""spiritual condition""promoting the personal flowering" "an absolute obsession with profit""personal gain""by systematic use of personality tests of no scientific value ... with the sole aim of selling services and products"."thetans" can be reincarnated. Many have already lived on other planets in the universe. Tom CruiseI've heard enough, not that I'm surprised.]]>http://www.plime.com/l/117105/1/rss2_0.rss#q2http://www.plime.com/l/117105/1/rss2_0.rss#q2plime.com