<feed version="0.3" xml:lang="en-us" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"><generator>Plime/1</generator><title>Capitalist medicine is inefficient. Socialist medicine is not. : ATOM 0.3</title><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.plime.com/"/><tagline>Capitalist medicine is inefficient. Socialist medicine is not. : ATOM 0.3</tagline><author><name>www.plime.com</name><email>plime@plime.com</email></author><copyright>2009, www.plime.com.</copyright><modified>2009-12-01T22:19:47+01:00</modified><entry><title><![CDATA[Capitalist medicine is inefficient. Socialist medicine is not.]]></title><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.plime.com/politics/l/125038/1/" /><id>125038</id><summary><![CDATA[Capitalist medicine is inefficient. Socialist medicine is not.]]></summary><issued>2009-06-22T01:32:59+01:00</issued><modified>2009-06-22T01:32:59+01:00</modified><content type="text/html" mode="escaped"><![CDATA[It's silly that they tout Obama's plan as socialist medicine. I get it. The idea is to conjure up images of government bureaucracy and inefficiency (think DMV or the Post Office). But here are the facts:<br/>FACT: capitalist medicine is inefficient.<br/>FACT: socialist medicine is not.]]></content></entry><hr size='1' class='line' noshade/><div style='padding-top:20px;height:300px;margin-right:10px;float:left;'><script type="text/javascript"><!--
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</script></div><table cellspacing='0' cellpadding='0' width='100%' style='padding-top:5px;margin-bottom:0px;' class='trh'><tr valign='bottom'><td><table cellspacing='0' cellpadding='0'><tr valign='bottom'><td class='minitabspc' style='font-size:7px'>&nbsp;&nbsp;</td><td class='minitabs lg'  nowrap="nowrap" id='tab-comments'><a href='/l/125038/1/' class='plime2 td mn'>comments (30)</a></td><td class='minitabspc' style='font-size:7px'>&nbsp;</td><td class='minitabd lg'  nowrap="nowrap" id='tab-related'><a href='/l/125038-related/1/' class='plime td mn'>related</a></td><td class='minitabspc' style='font-size:7px'>&nbsp;</td><td class='minitabd lg'  nowrap="nowrap" id='tab-share'><a href='/l/125038-share/1/' class='plime td mn'>share</a></td><td class='minitabspc' style='font-size:7px'>&nbsp;</td><td class='minitabd lg'  nowrap="nowrap" id='tab-history'><a href='/l/125038-history/1/' class='plime td mn'>edit history (1)</a></td></tr></table></td><td class='minitabspc' style='width:100%' valign='middle'><table width='100%'><tr class='regular'><td align='right'> <a onclick='return false' class='page-dull td'>&lt;</a><span> <b><a class='page-selected td' href='/l/125038/1/'>1</a></b> <a class='page td' href='/l/125038/2/'>2</a> <a href='/l/125038/2/' class='page td'>&gt;</a></span></td></tr></table></td></tr></table><entry><title><![CDATA[pocksucket @ 6/23/2009 9:23:17 AM]]></title><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.plime.com/l/125038/1/atom0_3.rss#q31" /><id>486777</id><summary><![CDATA[<div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q12"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>JoshSF49</b>&#160;:<br/><br/>If we flood the system with free healthcare, then people are going to visit the doctor much more often than they need to.  It w...]]></summary><issued>2009-06-23T09:23:17+01:00</issued><modified>2009-06-23T09:23:17+01:00</modified><content type="text/html" mode="escaped"><![CDATA[<div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q12"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>JoshSF49</b>&#160;:<br/><br/>If we flood the system with free healthcare, then people are going to visit the doctor much more often than they need to.  It will keep the people who really need treatment from actually getting it.<br/><br/></i></div>For the most part, when I say &quot;you&quot; I'm referring to the contingent of Americans who oppose healthcare free at the point of delivery, but as you are one of those it applies to you as well.<br/><br/>You talk as though this is a new idea that has just been thought of.  You talk as though this hasn't been successfully implemented in the majority of the civilised world.  You talk as if it's impossible because no-one has faced the problems it presents.<br/><br/>You talk as if the best reason not to try is the risk that you might fail.<br/><br/>Helping people is not a crime.  It isn't weak.  It isn't a failing.  It's human.  It's how we reach each other.]]></content></entry><entry><title><![CDATA[bcgrote @ 6/23/2009 2:27:19 AM]]></title><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.plime.com/l/125038/1/atom0_3.rss#q30" /><id>486723</id><summary><![CDATA[<div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q19"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>lumberjack</b>:Math check: I'm coming up with 365 billion using those numbers, not 365 trillion.  <br/><br/>Could be you're using government accounting; whi...]]></summary><issued>2009-06-23T02:27:19+01:00</issued><modified>2009-06-23T02:27:19+01:00</modified><content type="text/html" mode="escaped"><![CDATA[<div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q19"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>lumberjack</b>:Math check: I'm coming up with 365 billion using those numbers, not 365 trillion.  <br/><br/>Could be you're using government accounting; which involves adding zeros whenever nobody's looking. (another reason to avoid the government plan)</i></div>My bad.  I've been ill, and have a hard time counting 0's on my calculator!<br/><br/>Still, $365 Billion isn't something to sneeze at.  The government CAN run efficiently, if they are FORCED to by, OH!  US!  The PEOPLE!<br/><br/>The budget for the VA medical care for this year is &quot;only&quot; $41 billion, and they state that they treat 5.8 million veterans (out of a total of 23.6 million), as well as some non-veterans.  The vets treated are not all treated for free.  You have to be either injured during service, or VERY poor to qualify for free or reduced cost of treatment.  The vets they ARE treating are generally MUCH sicker than the general population, and in ways that the general population isn't, so the example isn't the best, but there it is.<br/><br/>With a FULL public health care system, would we still need a VA health care system?  Or could the VA system be folded in, continuing the specific care needed by veterans, but sharing funds?  That would be a win/win.  The VA does a GREAT deal of research and advanced medical techniques, as well as training future doctors through internships.  And with the amount of services that have been cut at the local VA medical centers, there are now many empty buildings that COULD be used for public healthcare facilities, once the laws are changed to allow it.  Until then, well, they keep tearing down perfectly good medical buildings that are empty, or being used to film the ubiquitous TV medical dramas.  <br/><br/>As was stated here, we CAN get rid of inefficient government employees a LOT more easily than CEOs and their own rules in a private company.]]></content></entry><entry><title><![CDATA[bcgrote @ 6/23/2009 2:10:23 AM]]></title><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.plime.com/l/125038/1/atom0_3.rss#q29" /><id>486720</id><summary><![CDATA[<div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q12"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>JoshSF49</b>&#160;:&#160;And that's one of the biggest problems, I think.<br/><br/>If we flood the system with free healthcare, then people are going to vis...]]></summary><issued>2009-06-23T02:10:23+01:00</issued><modified>2009-06-23T02:10:23+01:00</modified><content type="text/html" mode="escaped"><![CDATA[<div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q12"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>JoshSF49</b>&#160;:&#160;And that's one of the biggest problems, I think.<br/><br/>If we flood the system with free healthcare, then people are going to visit the doctor much more often than they need to.  It will keep the people who really need treatment from actually getting it.<br/><br/>I'm all for the Universal Health Care idea if we can do it without raising any taxes and if we can guarantee that those who need it most get it first.  Oh, and if it's a government-paid health care plan, not a government-run health care system.</i></div>Yes, for the first year or two, the system WILL be very busy.  But then, we have more than a decade backlog of people (who used to be on welfare, and usually could get medical care for their children) who haven't had ANY medical care.<br/><br/>Please note that &quot;people who go to the doctor when they don't need to&quot; is in itself a treatable medical/psychological condition.  Those will be weeded out of the system, or better yet, INTO the system where they can be referred to the services they REALLY need, whether it IS mental health, or to alleviate their loneliness!<br/><br/>The payments into a health plan will APPEAR to be a tax, as it COULD be withheld from a paycheck just like your retirement pay is (again, if YOU CHOOSE to participate!).  But then, your taxes should DECREASE!!!  Because medicaid, medicare, and other EXISTING health programs will not be required, so you won't have to pay for something you're not going to be using for X year, if ever!<br/><br/>The system is &quot;flooded&quot; right now.  People with colds go to the ER because they know they can be seen within a day or two, they can usually get treated for free or very little with patience, and it's one of very few places in their neighborhood where there ARE doctors!<br/><br/>And people &quot;who really need&quot; to see a doctor DO GET TO SEE A DOCTOR!  It's called &quot;triage&quot;.  Every ER does it.  The reception nurse in your private doctor's office does it as well when you call with your symptoms.<br/><br/>I have seen a few very small treatment clinics spring up in some homeopathic/naturopathic pharmacies such as Capitol Drug.  For a small fee ($25 or so), you can see a doctor and get a prescription or a referral if needed.  We need these EVERYWHERE, not just posh neighborhoods.]]></content></entry><entry><title><![CDATA[bcgrote @ 6/23/2009 1:53:20 AM]]></title><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.plime.com/l/125038/1/atom0_3.rss#q28" /><id>486715</id><summary><![CDATA[<div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q4"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>JoshSF49</b>:I'm going to disagree with you for the most part in your post.<br/><br/>The large healthcare prices in this country are due mostly because of th...]]></summary><issued>2009-06-23T01:53:20+01:00</issued><modified>2009-06-23T01:53:20+01:00</modified><content type="text/html" mode="escaped"><![CDATA[<div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q4"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>JoshSF49</b>:I'm going to disagree with you for the most part in your post.<br/><br/>The large healthcare prices in this country are due mostly because of the government involving itself in the first place.  A smaller portion of the blame goes to the healthcare industry itself.<br/><br/>Soaring healthcare (separate from health insurance) costs started because the government started requiring licenses to practice medicine.  These licenses (and the training to get them) cost a huge amount of money and at least 4 years of training.  This is also in part due to the medical lobbies paying off Congress to make these laws in order to force many years of training and many years of schooling.<br/><br/>Is this bad?  Well it requires that all doctors have the necessary training.  But it also means that they're going to have higher health costs, because schooling is incredibly expensive (blame the schools, too!)  Additionally, with the extraordinarily high malpractice insurance costs (tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands per year..thank you trial lawyers like John Edwards the ambulance chaser), we can't expect cheap healthcare.<br/><br/>If we removed these two things, healthcare prices would fall steeply, and we could still get some incredibly well trained physicians.<br/><br/>Thank your government for the high healthcare costs, not the healthcare industry (for the most part).  Oh, and John Edwards.<br/><br/>The same institution that caused high healthcare costs is now trying to lower them.  I call a farce.</i></div>The majority of the money (aka &quot;profit&quot;) taken in by health care agencies and companies DOES NOT go to the doctors or nurses!<br/><br/>Ask a doctor who graduated from medical school in the last decade how long it took (more likely IF THEY DID) to pay off their school loans.<br/><br/>Most doctors who work in hospitals ARE NOT WEALTHY.  Because the money is going to the health conglomerates.  I've SEEN their books, I and friends of mine have been in meetings where these companies DO NOT WANT THE DOCTORS TO DO THEIR JOBS!!!!  The companies want the profit, they do NOT give a CRAP about healing anyone!<br/><br/>Doctors were going to school and getting licensed WAAAAAAAAYYY before health insurance agencies became so prevalent.<br/><br/>During the Depression, and in hurting economies or poor areas, doctors HAVE BEEN and ARE willing to barter for their fees.  At least the ones who WANT to heal the community they are in.  The agencies don't care for the people at all, all they want is PROFIT$$$$!!!]]></content></entry><entry><title><![CDATA[shuallyo @ 6/22/2009 11:08:53 PM]]></title><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.plime.com/l/125038/1/atom0_3.rss#q27" /><id>486684</id><summary><![CDATA[What's funny is that (only in my experience), people are government single-payer advocates until they find a good job with great benefits. Then they're like why should I have to pay for someone  else's healthcare.<br/><br/>I personally have ZERO health ins...]]></summary><issued>2009-06-22T23:08:53+01:00</issued><modified>2009-06-22T23:08:53+01:00</modified><content type="text/html" mode="escaped"><![CDATA[What's funny is that (only in my experience), people are government single-payer advocates until they find a good job with great benefits. Then they're like why should I have to pay for someone  else's healthcare.<br/><br/>I personally have ZERO health insurance. I'm currently working to better myself so that I can have a job that offers good healthcare.  I'm paying my way through college with money I saved in advance and partial student loans.  I have some current health issues in which I do needs to see a doctor for.... and yet... I don't believe someone else should pay for my healthcare.]]></content></entry><entry><title><![CDATA[shuallyo @ 6/22/2009 10:52:40 PM]]></title><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.plime.com/l/125038/1/atom0_3.rss#q26" /><id>486678</id><summary><![CDATA[<div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q19"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>lumberjack</b>:Math check: I'm coming up with 365 billion using those numbers, not 365 trillion.  <br/><br/>Could be you're using government accounting; whi...]]></summary><issued>2009-06-22T22:52:40+01:00</issued><modified>2009-06-22T22:52:40+01:00</modified><content type="text/html" mode="escaped"><![CDATA[<div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q19"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>lumberjack</b>:Math check: I'm coming up with 365 billion using those numbers, not 365 trillion.  <br/><br/>Could be you're using government accounting; which involves adding zeros whenever nobody's looking. (another reason to avoid the government plan)</i></div>365 gabillion!]]></content></entry><entry><title><![CDATA[bunnysutra @ 6/22/2009 10:17:30 PM]]></title><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.plime.com/l/125038/1/atom0_3.rss#q25" /><id>486669</id><summary><![CDATA[<div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q6"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>makri</b>&#160;:&#160;Universal health care seems to work pretty well in many other western countries, I don't understand why US conservatives think American...]]></summary><issued>2009-06-22T22:17:30+01:00</issued><modified>2009-06-22T22:17:30+01:00</modified><content type="text/html" mode="escaped"><![CDATA[<div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q6"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>makri</b>&#160;:&#160;Universal health care seems to work pretty well in many other western countries, I don't understand why US conservatives think Americans on average suck so much that they couldn't pull it off too.</i></div>The tax system necessary would be wholly rejected by the US citizens.]]></content></entry><entry><title><![CDATA[ieldanth @ 6/22/2009 10:05:41 PM]]></title><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.plime.com/l/125038/1/atom0_3.rss#q24" /><id>486664</id><summary><![CDATA[<div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q19"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>lumberjack</b>&#160;:&#160;Math check: I'm coming up with 365 billion using those numbers, not 365 trillion.  <br/><br/>Could be you're using government acc...]]></summary><issued>2009-06-22T22:05:41+01:00</issued><modified>2009-06-22T22:05:41+01:00</modified><content type="text/html" mode="escaped"><![CDATA[<div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q19"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>lumberjack</b>&#160;:&#160;Math check: I'm coming up with 365 billion using those numbers, not 365 trillion.  <br/><br/>Could be you're using government accounting; which involves adding zeros whenever nobody's looking. (another reason to avoid the government plan)</i></div>Yeah, was about to post this.  I was coming up with 11 trillion with every man, woman and child in America(roughly 300 million) paying $100 a day.]]></content></entry><entry><title><![CDATA[deedlezx @ 6/22/2009 5:00:40 PM]]></title><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.plime.com/l/125038/1/atom0_3.rss#q23" /><id>486570</id><summary><![CDATA[i think socializing health care would be a huge weight off of this country's shoulders.<br/>I you hear of so many stories where people who needed the help couldn't get it because they didn't have any money.<br/>like me right now, if i were to have any sort...]]></summary><issued>2009-06-22T17:00:40+01:00</issued><modified>2009-06-22T17:00:40+01:00</modified><content type="text/html" mode="escaped"><![CDATA[i think socializing health care would be a huge weight off of this country's shoulders.<br/>I you hear of so many stories where people who needed the help couldn't get it because they didn't have any money.<br/>like me right now, if i were to have any sort of accident i would be s.o.l. since i have no health insurance. and what insurance company is going to want to insure a 21 year old girl with a predisposition for breast cancer, none of them. or if they do insure me i'd have to pay money out the wazoo just to have anything done. my mother was lucky enough to have a man that had a well paying job when she had all of her procedures done. but i'd be screwed, just like the millions of other people that can't afford health care in this country.<br/>its disgraceful.<br/>i understand that everyone wants their money spent the way they want it spent. i'd pay taxes if i knew it would help people get help when they truly need it. i DO NOT think that is a waste of money. <br/>my money is not more important than a human life.<br/>i am not &quot;above&quot; helping others, which i think that the majority of people that are so against socialized health care only care about their big fat wallets, unless its them that needs medical attention. but of course that's a whole other story now isn't it?]]></content></entry><entry><title><![CDATA[zhakhmir @ 6/22/2009 4:54:47 PM]]></title><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.plime.com/l/125038/1/atom0_3.rss#q22" /><id>486569</id><summary><![CDATA[bottom line is, we don't even need capitalism, or the concept of money anyway....with that said nobody should have to pay for trying to stay healthy/combatting disease. but seeing as how I feel this will NOT happen within my lifetime, if even because we ne...]]></summary><issued>2009-06-22T16:54:47+01:00</issued><modified>2009-06-22T16:54:47+01:00</modified><content type="text/html" mode="escaped"><![CDATA[bottom line is, we don't even need capitalism, or the concept of money anyway....with that said nobody should have to pay for trying to stay healthy/combatting disease. but seeing as how I feel this will NOT happen within my lifetime, if even because we need that gratification of money to do things such as saving lives and serving the greater good etc. <br/><br/>but again money=initiative, without money(initiative) most would revert to what I call &quot;serial laziness&quot; or catatonic living<br/><br/>while this may sound extreme, this is how I truly feel about the nature of our people]]></content></entry><entry><title><![CDATA[lynxears @ 6/22/2009 4:53:17 PM]]></title><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.plime.com/l/125038/1/atom0_3.rss#q21" /><id>486568</id><summary><![CDATA[<div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q20"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>chinook</b>&#160;:&#160; Are you sure you're not Canadian?  You'd fit in quite well here.  I'm sure the wild Canadian lynxes would welcome you with open paw...]]></summary><issued>2009-06-22T16:53:17+01:00</issued><modified>2009-06-22T16:53:17+01:00</modified><content type="text/html" mode="escaped"><![CDATA[<div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q20"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>chinook</b>&#160;:&#160; Are you sure you're not Canadian?  You'd fit in quite well here.  I'm sure the wild Canadian lynxes would welcome you with open paws.</i></div>Heh. If only Canada weren't so cold, we could consider that option.<br/><br/>Now I'm in California, though, and I think it's so nice I might never leave...]]></content></entry><entry><title><![CDATA[chinook @ 6/22/2009 4:49:10 PM]]></title><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.plime.com/l/125038/1/atom0_3.rss#q20" /><id>486564</id><summary><![CDATA[<div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q17"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>JoshSF49</b>&#160;:&#160;That's the thing that irritates me about those that disagree with me on the issue of capitalism.....  There is nothing cruel about ...]]></summary><issued>2009-06-22T16:49:10+01:00</issued><modified>2009-06-22T16:49:10+01:00</modified><content type="text/html" mode="escaped"><![CDATA[<div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q17"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>JoshSF49</b>&#160;:&#160;That's the thing that irritates me about those that disagree with me on the issue of capitalism.....  There is nothing cruel about responsibility.</i></div>Many people live as frugally as you described and might not get ahead in life if it weren't for government programs.  <br/><br/>While I have been lucky enough to avoid using these safety net programs, I am glad they exist and that they have helped countless families survive during hard times.  One quick glance back at this region during the Dirty Thirties makes me glad that there was assistance available for people then and now.  <br/><br/>Without our UHC, there would be many families who would be teetering on the brink of survival due to sick kids or an ill parent/grandparent.  <br/><br/>I think it is cruel and sheltered to assume that anyone who uses the safety net programs is irresponsible.  A few are, no doubt, but is it worth destroying many good people for that few? <br/><br/><div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q18"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>lynxears</b> : You may think you aren't cruel, but you come across that way. <br/><br/>I'll happily stay out of your country.</i></div>Are you sure you're not Canadian?  You'd fit in quite well here.  I'm sure the wild Canadian lynxes would welcome you with open paws.]]></content></entry><entry><title><![CDATA[lumberjack @ 6/22/2009 4:47:51 PM]]></title><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.plime.com/l/125038/1/atom0_3.rss#q19" /><id>486562</id><summary><![CDATA[<div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q3"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>bcgrote</b>&#160;:&#160;<br/>If we had everyone in America paying $100 a month (pretty close to what medicare recipients are paying), in THE FIRST YEAR, we w...]]></summary><issued>2009-06-22T16:47:51+01:00</issued><modified>2009-06-22T16:47:51+01:00</modified><content type="text/html" mode="escaped"><![CDATA[<div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q3"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>bcgrote</b>&#160;:&#160;<br/>If we had everyone in America paying $100 a month (pretty close to what medicare recipients are paying), in THE FIRST YEAR, we would COLLECT nearly $365 TRILLION!!!!!!  Yet some programs are being faulted because they will COST $10 Trillion over a dozen years?  I know quite a few people paying TEN TIMES that much EVERY month for COBRA coverage!</i></div>Math check: I'm coming up with 365 billion using those numbers, not 365 trillion.  <br/><br/>Could be you're using government accounting; which involves adding zeros whenever nobody's looking. (another reason to avoid the government plan)]]></content></entry><entry><title><![CDATA[lynxears @ 6/22/2009 4:27:56 PM]]></title><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.plime.com/l/125038/1/atom0_3.rss#q18" /><id>486555</id><summary><![CDATA[<div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q17"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>JoshSF49</b>&#160;:&#160;<br/><br/>So, lynxie, that brings me to your attack on me.  Next time, before you go spouting off on how trouble free my life has b...]]></summary><issued>2009-06-22T16:27:56+01:00</issued><modified>2009-06-22T16:27:56+01:00</modified><content type="text/html" mode="escaped"><![CDATA[<div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q17"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>JoshSF49</b>&#160;:&#160;<br/><br/>So, lynxie, that brings me to your attack on me.  Next time, before you go spouting off on how trouble free my life has been, maybe you should get to know the whole story first.  There is nothing cruel about responsibility.</i></div>You may think you aren't cruel, but you come across that way. <br/><br/>The truth is, you are just judging those people at the store. You don't know they bought their clothes full-price. It could be a gift. It could be name-brand hand-me-downs.  It's not particularly often you see someone shopping with food stamps while wearing a mink coat.<br/><br/>As for the mortgage problem, that is capitalism. Not evil government (though, yes, government has stepped in. It's better to have people in a house rather than hordes of homeless...)<br/><br/>So, keep whining. Or go found Joshville and don't have taxes pay for anything.<br/><br/>I'll happily stay out of your country.]]></content></entry><entry><title><![CDATA[JoshSF49 @ 6/22/2009 4:18:33 PM]]></title><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.plime.com/l/125038/1/atom0_3.rss#q17" /><id>486547</id><summary><![CDATA[<div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q16"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>lynxears</b>&#160;:&#160;You must be so lucky, to never have been challenged in life. So very very blessed.<br/><br/>I hope you're thankful.<br/><br/>And th...]]></summary><issued>2009-06-22T16:18:33+01:00</issued><modified>2009-06-22T16:18:33+01:00</modified><content type="text/html" mode="escaped"><![CDATA[<div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q16"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>lynxears</b>&#160;:&#160;You must be so lucky, to never have been challenged in life. So very very blessed.<br/><br/>I hope you're thankful.<br/><br/>And that you realize the vast majority of people who are on welfare, and want (but don't have) health care aren't doing it to &quot;milk&quot; the system, but because they really truly need assistance. The thing about capitalism, in  your idealistic form, is that it is cruel. Mercy is not a thing to be loathed.<br/><br/>I hope your shining tower is always pure, and that you and those you love never need the assistance you abhor so greatly.</i></div>That's the thing that irritates me about those that disagree with me on the issue of capitalism.<br/><br/>I'm not merciless and I'm not cold-hearted.  But I feel that I should have a say in where the money I worked for goes.  I don't appreciate my tax dollars supporting the massacre of unborn humans.  I don't appreciate my tax dollars supporting people who refuse to work.  Check out this <a class="plime" href="/redir.p?http://www.plime.com/l/59682/1/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">video</a> to see why I don't appreciate this.<br/><br/>It's not that I've never gone through financial hardships.  My family has.  At one point, we were too poor to buy a trashcan.  My aunt used to mail my mom $25 per month so that my mom could take my sister and me to a movie or to do something fun.  We were eligible for food stamps but didn't take them.  Why? Because we were able to cut back on the *unnecessary* spending in order to spend money on what *was* necessary.  We don't buy new cars every year.  We run our cars until they die.  We don't waste money.<br/><br/>For example, we were at the grocery store.  The lady in front of us had two children.  She was dressed in name brand clothing, as were her children.  She was buying name brand food and other objects from the store.  And she pulls out her WIC card to pay for the eggs and stuff.  She could afford to pay for all of those items with her own money...if she bought generic products and bought her kids clothing from the thrift store.  That's what's wrong with the picture.<br/><br/>I grew up in thrift store clothes.  I hate the thrift store, and I buy much more expensive clothing now, because I can afford it.  But regardless, my parents cut back on the unnecessary things, and only bought important things like food.  Sure, it's not a luxurious life, but we did not rely on the government.<br/><br/>Another case in point.  Mortgage companies were offering lower interest rates.  So my dad wanted to refinance the house we live in.  But, the mortgage company was only offering the lower interest rates to people who had fallen behind on their payments.  So the responsible ones, like my dad, are not given lower interest rates, because they've proven their responsibility.  How lame is that?<br/><br/>That is why I hate these programs.  It encourages irresponsibility.  It encourages people to be fiscally irresponsible, because the government will bail them out.  It encourages people to be lazy and haphazard with their belongings, because they can always get more money from the state.<br/><br/>There are some people who legitimately need help.  There are some people who cannot work and need money.  They're not who I'm talking about.  But the vast majority of people on government assistance can fend for themselves if they don't live beyond their means.<br/><br/>So, lynxie, that brings me to your attack on me.  Next time, before you go spouting off on how trouble free my life has been, maybe you should get to know the whole story first.  There is nothing cruel about responsibility.]]></content></entry><entry><title><![CDATA[lynxears @ 6/22/2009 3:06:59 PM]]></title><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.plime.com/l/125038/1/atom0_3.rss#q16" /><id>486525</id><summary><![CDATA[<div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q15"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>JoshSF49</b>&#160;:&#160;Exactly.  Get rid of welfare.  Get rid of some of these bureaucracies, get rid of funding for: Iraq War, Bank Bailouts, Abortion Fu...]]></summary><issued>2009-06-22T15:06:59+01:00</issued><modified>2009-06-22T15:06:59+01:00</modified><content type="text/html" mode="escaped"><![CDATA[<div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q15"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>JoshSF49</b>&#160;:&#160;Exactly.  Get rid of welfare.  Get rid of some of these bureaucracies, get rid of funding for: Iraq War, Bank Bailouts, Abortion Funding, Corporate Welfare, Welfare, Social Security, Department of Education, Department of Agriculture, Drug War, No Child Left Behind, etc.</i></div>You must be so lucky, to never have been challenged in life. So very very blessed.<br/><br/>I hope you're thankful.<br/><br/>And that you realize the vast majority of people who are on welfare, and want (but don't have) health care aren't doing it to &quot;milk&quot; the system, but because they really truly need assistance. The thing about capitalism, in  your idealistic form, is that it is cruel. Mercy is not a thing to be loathed.<br/><br/>I hope your shining tower is always pure, and that you and those you love never need the assistance you abhor so greatly.]]></content></entry><entry><title><![CDATA[JoshSF49 @ 6/22/2009 2:26:18 PM]]></title><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.plime.com/l/125038/1/atom0_3.rss#q15" /><id>486518</id><summary><![CDATA[<div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q14"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>Nev</b>&#160;:&#160;Why do so many people expect magical things like free health care and such to happen without taxes being raised?<br/><br/>If taxes aren'...]]></summary><issued>2009-06-22T14:26:18+01:00</issued><modified>2009-06-22T14:26:18+01:00</modified><content type="text/html" mode="escaped"><![CDATA[<div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q14"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>Nev</b>&#160;:&#160;Why do so many people expect magical things like free health care and such to happen without taxes being raised?<br/><br/>If taxes aren't raised then where are they supposed to get the funding for such a program?<br/><br/>The best thing would be for the pointless things that tax dollars are spent on to be cut and funneled into a health care program for everyone.</i></div>Exactly.  Get rid of welfare.  Get rid of some of these bureaucracies, get rid of funding for: Iraq War, Bank Bailouts, Abortion Funding, Corporate Welfare, Welfare, Social Security, Department of Education, Department of Agriculture, Drug War, No Child Left Behind, etc.]]></content></entry><entry><title><![CDATA[Nev @ 6/22/2009 2:05:50 PM]]></title><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.plime.com/l/125038/1/atom0_3.rss#q14" /><id>486513</id><summary><![CDATA[<div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q12"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>JoshSF49</b>&#160;:&#160;And that's one of the biggest problems, I think.<br/><br/>If we flood the system with free healthcare, then people are going to vis...]]></summary><issued>2009-06-22T14:05:50+01:00</issued><modified>2009-06-22T14:05:50+01:00</modified><content type="text/html" mode="escaped"><![CDATA[<div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q12"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>JoshSF49</b>&#160;:&#160;And that's one of the biggest problems, I think.<br/><br/>If we flood the system with free healthcare, then people are going to visit the doctor much more often than they need to.  It will keep the people who really need treatment from actually getting it.<br/><br/>I'm all for the Universal Health Care idea if we can do it without raising any taxes and if we can guarantee that those who need it most get it first.  Oh, and if it's a government-paid health care plan, not a government-run health care system.</i></div>Why do so many people expect magical things like free health care and such to happen without taxes being raised?<br/><br/>If taxes aren't raised then where are they supposed to get the funding for such a program?<br/><br/>The best thing would be for the pointless things that tax dollars are spent on to be cut and funneled into a health care program for everyone.<br/><br/>Either way at the end of the day I think it's bull#$@% and disgusting that a few weeks ago my mom was literally two thirds away from dialing 9-1-1 because she felt like she was dying after being given the wrong prescription, but then stopped because she remembered how EXPENSIVE a trip to the ER was.<br/>Something's gotta give, quickly.]]></content></entry><entry><title><![CDATA[chinook @ 6/22/2009 1:48:55 PM]]></title><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.plime.com/l/125038/1/atom0_3.rss#q13" /><id>486508</id><summary><![CDATA[<div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q11"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>Interesting</b>&#160;:&#160;Socialized health care is a wonderful idea...wouldn't work in the United States unless someone added more doctors, and subtracte...]]></summary><issued>2009-06-22T13:48:55+01:00</issued><modified>2009-06-22T13:48:55+01:00</modified><content type="text/html" mode="escaped"><![CDATA[<div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q11"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>Interesting</b>&#160;:&#160;Socialized health care is a wonderful idea...wouldn't work in the United States unless someone added more doctors, and subtracted people who will &quot;milk&quot; the system.  I was in Canada for the last federal election, and one of the major issues was the lack of doctors.  When I lived in the US I would shock my Canadian family members by mentioning that I would be going in for a medical procedure shortly after mentioning I needed it...instead of waiting for six months as they had to do in Ontario.  <br/>Its not that I think Americans &quot;suck&quot; and can't pull it off, its a matter of logistics.</i></div>That's not a widespread problem in our healthcare system.  Even when I lived in the city, I never waited more than a month for a medical procedure - and that wait was long because I had to be healthy enough for surgery.  This shocked none of my Canadian family members.]]></content></entry><entry><title><![CDATA[JoshSF49 @ 6/22/2009 1:23:48 PM]]></title><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.plime.com/l/125038/1/atom0_3.rss#q12" /><id>486499</id><summary><![CDATA[<div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q11"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>Interesting</b>&#160;:&#160;Socialized health care is a wonderful idea...wouldn't work in the United States unless someone added more doctors, and subtracte...]]></summary><issued>2009-06-22T13:23:48+01:00</issued><modified>2009-06-22T13:23:48+01:00</modified><content type="text/html" mode="escaped"><![CDATA[<div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q11"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>Interesting</b>&#160;:&#160;Socialized health care is a wonderful idea...wouldn't work in the United States unless someone added more doctors, and subtracted people who will &quot;milk&quot; the system.  I was in Canada for the last federal election, and one of the major issues was the lack of doctors.  When I lived in the US I would shock my Canadian family members by mentioning that I would be going in for a medical procedure shortly after mentioning I needed it...instead of waiting for six months as they had to do in Ontario.  <br/>Its not that I think Americans &quot;suck&quot; and can't pull it off, its a matter of logistics.</i></div>And that's one of the biggest problems, I think.<br/><br/>If we flood the system with free healthcare, then people are going to visit the doctor much more often than they need to.  It will keep the people who really need treatment from actually getting it.<br/><br/>I'm all for the Universal Health Care idea if we can do it without raising any taxes and if we can guarantee that those who need it most get it first.  Oh, and if it's a government-paid health care plan, not a government-run health care system.]]></content></entry><entry><title><![CDATA[Interesting @ 6/22/2009 1:06:40 PM]]></title><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.plime.com/l/125038/1/atom0_3.rss#q11" /><id>486492</id><summary><![CDATA[Socialized health care is a wonderful idea...wouldn't work in the United States unless someone added more doctors, and subtracted people who will &quot;milk&quot; the system.  I was in Canada for the last federal election, and one of the major issues was t...]]></summary><issued>2009-06-22T13:06:40+01:00</issued><modified>2009-06-22T13:06:40+01:00</modified><content type="text/html" mode="escaped"><![CDATA[Socialized health care is a wonderful idea...wouldn't work in the United States unless someone added more doctors, and subtracted people who will &quot;milk&quot; the system.  I was in Canada for the last federal election, and one of the major issues was the lack of doctors.  When I lived in the US I would shock my Canadian family members by mentioning that I would be going in for a medical procedure shortly after mentioning I needed it...instead of waiting for six months as they had to do in Ontario.  <br/>Its not that I think Americans &quot;suck&quot; and can't pull it off, its a matter of logistics.]]></content></entry><entry><title><![CDATA[Chamale @ 6/22/2009 12:12:42 PM]]></title><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.plime.com/l/125038/1/atom0_3.rss#q10" /><id>486475</id><summary><![CDATA[Do you know who this man is?<br/><br/><div class='imagecontainer' ><a href='/redir.p?http://www.weyburnreview.com/tommydouglas/tommymic.gif' rel='nofollow' target='_blank' ><img  src='/images/null.gif' id='xhttpwwwweyburnreviewcomtommydouglastommymicgif' s...]]></summary><issued>2009-06-22T12:12:42+01:00</issued><modified>2009-06-22T12:12:42+01:00</modified><content type="text/html" mode="escaped"><![CDATA[Do you know who this man is?<br/><br/><div class='imagecontainer' ><a href='/redir.p?http://www.weyburnreview.com/tommydouglas/tommymic.gif' rel='nofollow' target='_blank' ><img  src='/images/null.gif' id='xhttpwwwweyburnreviewcomtommydouglastommymicgif' style='border:1px solid #CDCDCD;background-color:#E6E6E6;' alt='Click here to show image'/></a><noscript> <span style='display:inline;width:300px;overflow:hidden;'><a class="plime" href="/redir.p?http://www.weyburnreview.com/tommydouglas/tommymic.gif" rel="nofollow">http://www.weyburnreview.com/tommydouglas/tommymic.gif</a></span></noscript></div><script>forumimage('http://www.weyburnreview.com/tommydouglas/tommymic.gif','xhttpwwwweyburnreviewcomtommydouglastommymicgif');</script><br/><br/>He's Tommy Douglas. The man who brought universal health care to Canada. He's our national hero, and in 2004 he was voted the greatest Canadian of all time. Above Frederick Banting, David Suzuki, Terry Fox, even above Wayne Gretzky and Don Cherry.<br/><br/>It's pretty clear that in countries that have universal health care, opinions are not divided on it. If the government ever switched to a fully privatized system, Canadians would overthrow the government.]]></content></entry><entry><title><![CDATA[DerAlt @ 6/22/2009 11:40:22 AM]]></title><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.plime.com/l/125038/1/atom0_3.rss#q9" /><id>486467</id><summary><![CDATA[Money should be the only real issue here and it's the only really credible issue.<br/><br/>Comparing Gov't run healthcare to the DMV or Amtrack is merely self serving. The DMV is essentially a state run department and like Amtrack suffers because it requir...]]></summary><issued>2009-06-22T11:40:22+01:00</issued><modified>2009-06-22T11:40:22+01:00</modified><content type="text/html" mode="escaped"><![CDATA[Money should be the only real issue here and it's the only really credible issue.<br/><br/>Comparing Gov't run healthcare to the DMV or Amtrack is merely self serving. The DMV is essentially a state run department and like Amtrack suffers because it requires instant service, a while-you-wait problem that annoys some people no matter who runs it.<br/><br/>The true comparisons  should be Social Security and Medicare. Medicaid is also state administered.<br/><br/>I have dealt with both of these programs for quite a few years as have most of my friends. They are run very well. I have never had a problem of any kind with either department. Unfortunately, there will be waste as there is in any buisness public or private. <br/><br/>The fraud issue is totally on the shoulders of the criminal types that perpertrate it.<br/><br/>There certainly is a Sky Is Falling approach by many of the plans critics.]]></content></entry><entry><title><![CDATA[chinook @ 6/22/2009 11:02:20 AM]]></title><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.plime.com/l/125038/1/atom0_3.rss#q8" /><id>486457</id><summary><![CDATA[Interesting article, though I feel the essay the author discusses should have been linked instead of this short &quot;recap.&quot;  <br/><br/>I love having a government-funded health care system.  My province used to have a monthly fee for it, I'm not sure...]]></summary><issued>2009-06-22T11:02:20+01:00</issued><modified>2009-06-22T11:02:20+01:00</modified><content type="text/html" mode="escaped"><![CDATA[Interesting article, though I feel the essay the author discusses should have been linked instead of this short &quot;recap.&quot;  <br/><br/>I love having a government-funded health care system.  My province used to have a monthly fee for it, I'm not sure how much it was but it wasn't much (I was a student then).  <br/><br/>Are there freeloaders and people who abuse the system?  You bet.  Some people demand multiple MRI's because they think the first or second was inadequate, and some people go to the ER with rhinovirus instead of a local clinic, but these are a tiny minority of all people.   I will happily tolerate a few system users if it means I never have to worry about a doctor seeing me as a paycheck instead of a patient, or being refused because I can't afford a procedure or consultation.  <br/><br/>With recent provincial budget cuts, there have been several high-level officials in the health care system who have been fired or received substantial pay cuts - I think the government system can be fairly efficient when the right people are in charge.  After all - I can't imagine an industry run by insurance people looking for a profit can be more beneficial to the people in need than a bit of government bureaucracy.  Bureaucrats can be held accountable if the system is failing people.  Insurance companies will just gloat with profits.<br/><br/><div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q2"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>JoshSF49</b>&#160;:&#160;This is a perfect reason the government should not be running healthcare.  We have too many freeloaders that would take advantage of the system, as well.  UHC is a bad idea.</i></div>You didn't read the essay that the author of this article references, eh? <br/><br/>It was written by a conservative in favour of some UHC, with the argument being that without any provided, the majority of people who are suffering from an absolute lack of health care will overwhelmingly support UHC.<br/><br/>I agree with this, though in my opinion UHC is superior to partial HC.  Still, I think the author makes a great point that without some provisions, people are going to be more inclined to support a socialist health care system because right now they have nothing.]]></content></entry><entry><title><![CDATA[hoosker @ 6/22/2009 9:42:22 AM]]></title><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.plime.com/l/125038/1/atom0_3.rss#q7" /><id>486431</id><summary><![CDATA[<div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q6"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>makri</b>&#160;:&#160;Universal health care seems to work pretty well in many other western countries, I don't understand why US conservatives think American...]]></summary><issued>2009-06-22T09:42:22+01:00</issued><modified>2009-06-22T09:42:22+01:00</modified><content type="text/html" mode="escaped"><![CDATA[<div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q6"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>makri</b>&#160;:&#160;Universal health care seems to work pretty well in many other western countries, I don't understand why US conservatives think Americans on average suck so much that they couldn't pull it off too.</i></div>Maybe your comment is just a statement about conservatives and not a real question.<br/><br/>If it's a question, then the answer is in what conservatism is about, which has nothing to do with thinking that Americans suck.<br/>At least, that's one Americans opinion who happens to have family and friends that are Conservative and Liberal and has never heard either of the side say they think Americans suck.]]></content></entry><entry><title><![CDATA[makri @ 6/22/2009 9:30:05 AM]]></title><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.plime.com/l/125038/1/atom0_3.rss#q6" /><id>486429</id><summary><![CDATA[Universal health care seems to work pretty well in many other western countries, I don't understand why US conservatives think Americans on average suck so much that they couldn't pull it off too.]]></summary><issued>2009-06-22T09:30:05+01:00</issued><modified>2009-06-22T09:30:05+01:00</modified><content type="text/html" mode="escaped"><![CDATA[Universal health care seems to work pretty well in many other western countries, I don't understand why US conservatives think Americans on average suck so much that they couldn't pull it off too.]]></content></entry><entry><title><![CDATA[Kevertje @ 6/22/2009 9:10:36 AM]]></title><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.plime.com/l/125038/1/atom0_3.rss#q5" /><id>486427</id><summary><![CDATA[A visit to the GP costs me about 22&#8364;, the doctor gives me a receipt, which I then turn over to the 'Mutualiteit' (something like health insurance).<br/><br/>They in turn refund me about 21&#8364;. Total cost for me: 1&#8364;.<br/><br/>Having this ins...]]></summary><issued>2009-06-22T09:10:36+01:00</issued><modified>2009-06-22T09:10:36+01:00</modified><content type="text/html" mode="escaped"><![CDATA[A visit to the GP costs me about 22&#8364;, the doctor gives me a receipt, which I then turn over to the 'Mutualiteit' (something like health insurance).<br/><br/>They in turn refund me about 21&#8364;. Total cost for me: 1&#8364;.<br/><br/>Having this insurance costs me about 60&#8364; per year, the rest of the money comes from the government.<br/><br/>Clearly this is a socialist system and it works.<br/><br/>It seems to me that people in America have a kneejerk reaction that everything 'socialist' is bad. Perhaps a remainder of the McCarthy era of communist witch hunts?]]></content></entry><entry><title><![CDATA[JoshSF49 @ 6/22/2009 5:24:24 AM]]></title><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.plime.com/l/125038/1/atom0_3.rss#q4" /><id>486404</id><summary><![CDATA[<div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q3"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>bcgrote</b>&#160;:&#160;A fully funded public health care system is not as scary as getting ill and having NOWHERE to turn for treatment!</i></div>I'm going ...]]></summary><issued>2009-06-22T05:24:24+01:00</issued><modified>2009-06-22T05:24:24+01:00</modified><content type="text/html" mode="escaped"><![CDATA[<div class='qp pad d'><a class="page-dull td" href="/l/125038/1/#q3"><b>&laquo;</b></a>&nbsp;<i><b>bcgrote</b>&#160;:&#160;A fully funded public health care system is not as scary as getting ill and having NOWHERE to turn for treatment!</i></div>I'm going to disagree with you for the most part in your post.<br/><br/>The large healthcare prices in this country are due mostly because of the government involving itself in the first place.  A smaller portion of the blame goes to the healthcare industry itself.<br/><br/>Soaring healthcare (separate from health insurance) costs started because the government started requiring licenses to practice medicine.  These licenses (and the training to get them) cost a huge amount of money and at least 4 years of training.  This is also in part due to the medical lobbies paying off Congress to make these laws in order to force many years of training and many years of schooling.<br/><br/>Is this bad?  Well it requires that all doctors have the necessary training.  But it also means that they're going to have higher health costs, because schooling is incredibly expensive (blame the schools, too!)  Additionally, with the extraordinarily high malpractice insurance costs (tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands per year..thank you trial lawyers like John Edwards the ambulance chaser), we can't expect cheap healthcare.<br/><br/>If we removed these two things, healthcare prices would fall steeply, and we could still get some incredibly well trained physicians.<br/><br/>Thank your government for the high healthcare costs, not the healthcare industry (for the most part).  Oh, and John Edwards.<br/><br/>The same institution that caused high healthcare costs is now trying to lower them.  I call a farce.]]></content></entry><entry><title><![CDATA[bcgrote @ 6/22/2009 4:20:46 AM]]></title><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.plime.com/l/125038/1/atom0_3.rss#q3" /><id>486395</id><summary><![CDATA[The agencies opposed to changes in health care are playing both ends against the middle.<br/><br/>&quot;Oooh, it's socialism&quot; - bringing in the fear of misunderstood political ideologies.  But then THEIR OWN beaurocracies are NOT there to provide heal...]]></summary><issued>2009-06-22T04:20:46+01:00</issued><modified>2009-06-22T04:20:46+01:00</modified><content type="text/html" mode="escaped"><![CDATA[The agencies opposed to changes in health care are playing both ends against the middle.<br/><br/>&quot;Oooh, it's socialism&quot; - bringing in the fear of misunderstood political ideologies.  But then THEIR OWN beaurocracies are NOT there to provide health care to people, they are only there to MAKE MONEY!<br/><br/>Yet this same &quot;socialistic&quot; health care is provided, albeit in a SERIOUSLY underfunded and haphazard fashion to veterans, the poor and the elderly.<br/><br/>The AMA is opposed to this plan, we are told.  Yet do we ALL understand that the AMA only represents 19% of all doctors in America?  That is hardly a mandate!<br/><br/>If we had everyone in America paying $100 a month (pretty close to what medicare recipients are paying), in THE FIRST YEAR, we would COLLECT nearly $365 TRILLION!!!!!!  Yet some programs are being faulted because they will COST $10 Trillion over a dozen years?  I know quite a few people paying TEN TIMES that much EVERY month for COBRA coverage!<br/><br/>How about we pay the doctors to heal people, instead of paying companies to withhold treatment and preventive services?<br/><br/>This still being America, someone who CAN afford private health insurance can buy it if they want no matter what.  But EVERYONE will have access to medical treatments.  That sounds like the country I love, not &quot;who cares about the poor and disenfranchised&quot;!<br/><br/>It is getting to the point that BEING BORN is a preexisting condition!  Oh, you had chicken pox as a little tiny child?  Then you have a preexisting risk for shingles.  Uninsurable.  You've taken antibiotics more than 6 times?  You're a risk for MRSA!  Uninsurable.  You have a tattoo or ANY piercing?  You have a risk of hepatitis!  Uninsurable!<br/><br/>&quot;The government&quot; may not be &quot;running&quot; health care under a public plan.  And even if they do, so what?  They do a LOT of stuff REALLY well, like collecting taxes, delivering mail, maintaining this HUGE country on a gradually diminishing tax base...  They could set it up, (meaning fund it and name someone like the Surgeon General to head it and staff it), then defer to more knowledgeable people to run it FOR THE PEOPLE, like Lincoln said.<br/><br/>A fully funded public health care system is not as scary as getting ill and having NOWHERE to turn for treatment!]]></content></entry><entry><title><![CDATA[JoshSF49 @ 6/22/2009 2:37:26 AM]]></title><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.plime.com/l/125038/1/atom0_3.rss#q2" /><id>486383</id><summary><![CDATA[Because healthcare is the *only* variable in life expectancy. @@<br/><br/><a class="plime" href="/redir.p?http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA547ComparativeHealth.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Linky 1</a><br/><a class="plime" href="/redir.p?http://www....]]></summary><issued>2009-06-22T02:37:26+01:00</issued><modified>2009-06-22T02:37:26+01:00</modified><content type="text/html" mode="escaped"><![CDATA[Because healthcare is the *only* variable in life expectancy. @@<br/><br/><a class="plime" href="/redir.p?http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA547ComparativeHealth.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Linky 1</a><br/><a class="plime" href="/redir.p?http://www.nber.org/aginghealth/fall07/w13429.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Linky 2</a><div class='qp pad d'><i>The gap in life expectancy among young adults is mostly explained by the higher rate of mortality in the U.S. from accidents and homicides. At older ages much of the gap is due to a higher rate of heart disease-related mortality in the U.S. While this could be related to better treatment of heart disease in Canada, factors such as the U.S.'s higher obesity rate (33 percent of U.S. women are obese, vs. 19 percent in Canada) surely play a role.</i></div><a class="plime" href="/redir.p?http://repository.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1010&amp;context=psc_working_papers" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Linky 3 (pdf)</a><div class='qp pad d'><i>In conclusion, we have demonstrated that death rates from prostate cancer have declined significantly more rapidly in the US than in a set of comparison countries. The rapid decline appears to be attributable to an excellent performance by the US health care system in identifying and treating cases of prostate cancer. Reasons why US mortality levels from certain other causes of death fare poorly in international comparisons are not always obvious. It should not be automatically assumed that high mortality from a cause of death is a reflection of a poor performance by a health care system, particularly when that cause is subject to important behavioral influences.  </i></div>It's a fact that the government is inefficient.  The examples of the DMV and Amtrak *are* incredibly good examples of why we shouldn't let the government handle these things.  The Post Office is only a quasi-governmental agency.<br/><br/>Amtrak is the best example.  Amtrak used to be the Penn Central Transportation Company.  PCTC had some issues financially and the government bailed them out, took over the company and split it into two.  The first was Amtrak, the second was Conrail.  Conrail is a privately owned company and posts a profit.  Amtrak, however, is government owned and run.  Guess what? Amtrak doesn't post a profit.  In fact, it eats up our tax dollars.  Efficiency at its best.<br/><br/>This is a perfect reason the government should not be running healthcare.  We have too many freeloaders that would take advantage of the system, as well.  UHC is a bad idea.<br/><br/><b>EDIT: Please tag your posts better.</b>]]></content></entry></feed>