As for the electrosychometer... why can't they just put two sticks together in the form of a 't' and claim that helps like the rest of hte organized religions?

Whether I believe (I don't) or not doesn't have any bearing on it. There are many religions I don't believe in but that does not give me the right to say that they are wrong and I am right.

Religious freedom is in danger when any religion can go before a panel of judges and be put on trial. Prove your faith or suffer the consequences eh? Let's put a few Christians on the stand and let them Prove their faith. How about some Muslims?

What religion can go before a Judge and prove what they say is correct?

It's not the religion that is being challenged, it is the fact that they (fraudelently) tell people there is something wrong with them and that they need these vitamins and books.

Unlike Christianity then..?

Do you actually mean that? Do you actually mean that any act committed in the name of religion should be above the law?

And even if you do mean that, how do your thoughts on religion's legal impunity relate to Scientology?

I'm an athiest so don't think I'm defending any religion... but at least Christianity doesn't require you to spend money for 'spiritual salvation'.

NO! Unless they don't pass out the collection plate at service anymore...

They may not 'require' you to as it is voluntary, but it's still passed and asked for 'out of guilt'

That's not a requirement to contribute. You can go without paying. It is an offering.

It may not be asking to 'Buy Salvation' outright, but it's still asking for money...

Asking isn't the same as requiring.

Require

One entry found.

Main Entry: require
Pronunciation:
i-ˈkwī(-ə)r
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): required; requiring
Etymology: Middle English requeren, from Anglo-French requere, from Vulgar Latin *requaerere to seek for, need, require, alteration of Latin requirere, from re- + quaerere to seek, ask
Date: 14th century

transitive verb

1 a : to claim or ask for by right and authority b archaic : request

2 a : to call for as suitable or appropriate <the occasion requires formal dress> b : to demand as necessary or essential : have a compelling need for

3 : to impose a compulsion or command on : compel

4 chiefly British : to feel or be obliged —used with a following infinitive <one does not require to be a specialist — Elizabeth Bowen>intransitive verb archaic : ask

synonyms see demand

Here comes the Semantics-Police!

A church may require funds to operate... without the religion requiring your funds for salvation.

The difference between Scientology selling the E-Meter and the Church handing out a collection plate is that one is selling a product or a service and the other is requesting donations.

Scientology is selling the E-Meters like a business, and thus is being treated as a business. Churches are not selling anything. Yes, they have collection plates, but they are asking for donations, and it is not mandatory for one to put money in the plates to attend the church or make use of it's services.

Note: I realize there are churches that may sell products or services. In those cases, the churches should be held up to the same standards of honesty about the products or services they sell as other businesses.

Vatican, multi-billion corporation with real estate, historical art treasures, it's own city etc, etc

Mormons, enough cash to sway politics, 10% of wages requirement.

And so on...

Then I would like the Catholic Church to reimburse my parents 6 years of Catholic School tuition PLUS pain and suffering for not holding up to the standards of the product 'salvation' it claimed...

Specially after I am an atheist...

The Catholics sold indulgences. No, they weren't required but then again, neither is going to heaven. You have the choice to go to hell if you want... or you can give the church money and go to heaven.

Doesn't that sound like the E-meter? Well, we think there is sin on you and we can get rid of it IF you pay us money for the vitamins and books... Course you could just go to hell.

I've never heard of someone that Scientology has kicked out, I've heard of many people Leaving but not someone who the church kicked out for not having the money to pay for their services. Scientology might target celebrities and richer folk or perhaps the celebrities are the ones you hear about and the other 12 million are just random people on the street.

I don't know. I honestly don't. I don't have any kind of scientology background to know how their religion works.

I still say that the Judges need to put a few of their own pastors/ministers on the same stand and ask them the same questions.

People buy Holy Candles. People buy Crosses. People pay Tithings and People go to church and put money into the collection plate so that they'll go to heaven. People pay for ceremonies done by Rabbi's. What exactly is the difference?

Oh, they're not required to though. The choice is theirs, pay money.. or go to hell.

No, churches need to be held to the law. When a church murders someone, they need to be held accountible for murder. When a church asks for donations, it is the choice of the paritioner whether or not to pay the donation. They aren't stealing the money, they're asking for the money.

Do they give the service that the people want? Well, the person gives the money to absolve themselves of whatever sin they believe they have. The Scientologists give them that absolution. It's not the same as a Con man who sells you the brooklyn bridge, you wanted a bridge, you didn't get one.

These people want to feel better. They want the belief that they are going to heaven (or whatever spaceship ride they're supposed to get) and Scientology GIVES them that belief. It allows them to feel better.

Just like every other religion.

You have an envelope where you put in as much as you choose to. Nobody checks your wages, 10% is what the church says is correct. What you give is completely private though and I've known Many mormons who gave nothing and remains members for decades. It's not a requirement to be a member, it's something that members choose to do. You are even allowed to give if you aren't a Mormon. You aren't promised ANY tangible benefit from it.

Read the last paragraph again. :P

(And not its own city. Its own country.)

SOLD, past tense. No longer (there's this thing called the Reformation that changed a lot of that.)

Though I probably don't need to tell you that; I think you came around to saying religion =/= business, but just to clarify for everyone...

That was the only actual "buy salvation, half price!" done in a business-like way by any of the Christian churches.

I'm sure that last paragraph wasn't there when I commented. In any case you contradict yourself..

Then a paragraph later

Your parents are extremely naive if they thought that sending you to Catholic School was going to save your soul... especially if they thought it was 'required'.

To clarify for him: Churches, in general, aren't selling any physical product.... and could only be said to be "selling" an intangible product in a stretch of the word 'selling.'

They give away lessons for free, with donations accepted.

There are a select few instances where, on top of the free lessons, they offer alternative products/services. But that's rare and governed by the laws of any business.