I generally agree with you there, although there *are* plenty of people for who it isn't a big problem.

I know someone *very* well who works in the hospital and also actually volunteers for a pregnancy crisis centre. She's seen people who have come in for their 9th and 10th abortion who is doesn't phaze at all. People without great moral convictions or have convinced themselves that 'it's just a bunch of cells' can get away fairly easily with abortions. To say that 'everyone's brutally traumatized' is oversimplifying.

I know we have to oversimplify sometimes and you're nearly 100% correct. I just wanted to throw another element into the mix. Creating the emotion of trauma and then handing that package to people to carry isn't doing them any favours though - no matter what your personal beliefs/convictions are.

Parents have some control over their children, but not complete. You can do the best job imaginable and yet still have a teenager do something against your wishes. Anyone who claims that they are able to control every decision their kid makes is delusional.

That's not true. Over half of abortions are done to women who were responsible and used birth control.

Attempting to label women who get abortions irresponsible might make being anti-choice easier, but it doesn't make it true.

It depends on the woman. It can be traumatic. Carrying the child of a rapist is probably much more traumatic.

That's a crock of s**t! Let's see your facts on that!

Are suggesting the half of those woman - ones who use a contraceptive that is proven to be 99.x% effective - just happen to fall into that <1%? Don't assume that a woman or man who is (barely) responsible enough to use a contraceptive is responsible enough to know how to use it. In this day and age, if you use a contraceptive the way it is supposed to be used, you don't get pregnant. Anyone who says that they used a contraceptive and still got pregnant is either lying or too stupid to follow directions.

Unless you consider thinking, "Gee I hope I don't get pregnant" as a form of birth control.

I'd back down off that high-horse a little.

Here's a good chart showing expected pregnancy rates, along with the 'lowest expected' which accounts for correct usage.



Now if you consider that the people who get pregnant while doing birth control are probably the most likely people who *DON'T* want kids at this particular time (given that they're trying not to) it's not a hard jump to see how responsible people *DO* make up a good percentage of people wanting abortions.

You say its emotiontionally taxing to give a child up for adoption. and then you turn around and say, well having an abortion sucks too. If both of them are taxing on the monther, than you should pick the lesser of the two evils

adoption<abortion

and plus before abortion was available it wasnt big news about how hard it was to carry a rapists baby and yes they went through and gave birth and yes life went on.

the fact that there is an easy way out of having rape induced child makes it alot easier to ignore the main issue which is rape.

and sure alot of people get abortions but the percentage of people that get abortins because of rape/incest is really small ( i dont have a stat . on that yet so ignore this statement till i find one. i do remember seeing it somewhere )

I really can't see any problems with that argument at all. The world would be a wonderful place if everyone subscribed to it.

Unfortunately, there's a big percentage of people who don't see the abortion/adoption balance as being equal. Not that they don't see the evils of abortion, they just weight the adoption problems as larger.

She was 13, walking home from school at 3:30 in the afternoon one March and was raped.

[edit] I just saw page 3 and realized this was covered eons ago. Sorry dudes & dudettes.

Another common one is women not wanting their spouse to find out their pregnant for fear of losing them. Even if they were fully responsible in trying not to get pregnant, it sometimes happens.

Glossing over the issue with, "Well, the partner should be more understanding", is not going to solve the problem.

You're right. No one made a fuss over carrying an unwanted baby before clinical abortions were made available.

That's what coat hangers were for.

Actually, historically, women have been taking various herbs that can cause spontaneous abortion, although I believe in most literature they are referred to as induced miscarraiges, a term that was a little more delicate.

I don't think so, but that's just my opinion. [/quote]I think this is largely because emergency contraception can be offered to a large number of rape victims, and this will either prevent sperm from meeting an ova or sponeaneously abort an implanted embryo.

it happens but to a small number of people. and maybe a few people's hunsbands leave but some still and even so if the girl gets the abortion the marriage might be saved (and they may or may not divorce later) but there is still a dead baby to bury.

i said this before ill say it again not everyone in america is going to be pleased no matter what you do. sure those women might be upset that they couldnt have an abortion but if abortion was outlawed so many peoples lives get saved.

just look back at history. first people thought the spanish inquisition was wrong, then the reign of terror in france, then slavery, abortion is going to be one of those things that in the futere people are gonna say " dude these people were barbaric." im not proud that most of our country (america) supports murder and neither will our offspring down the road.

That is such an incredibly unintelligent, arrogant comment that I don't even know where to begin.

First of all, if you believe what pro life groups say, "A variety of studies have found that condoms have an "annual failure rate" of 10% to 36% when it comes to preventing pregnancy." (http://www.prolife.com/CONDOMS.html) Now, a site like prolife.com isn't probably the most reliable source of information, but still. Calling people who get pregnant while using protection stupid or liars is appalling.

If you don't have facts to back up your claims, don't make the claims.

Edited to add: According to this goverment site, pregnancy rate for condom users is 15% a year, 8% for the pill. Even if you use condom while being on the pill, you have 1.2% chance of pregnancy.

Technically, before 21 weeks (I'm fairly sure of than number - at least it's that way in Canada anyway) the baby isn't a baby. They landed on that number because under that number the baby isn't viable outside of the Mom. This means that the baby is 'disposed of' as opposed to buried. Which means lots of people 'get away with it'.

Interestingly enough, most of the people wanting abortions because of their partners are middle aged women. Kids have left, entering menopause, not willing to have another kid, shaky marriage. Sometimes abortion just looks like the lesser of many evils.

The slaughtering of our English language is also indeed barbaric!

Instead of outlawing abortions, why doesn't America try and outlaw firearms? I think, especially in light of today's tragic events, that many innocent lives would be saved that way. Firearms are responsible for orders of magnitude more murders than abortion, so why not outlaw these as well? If this happens, and many innocent lives are saved every year, then maybe abortion clinics could be outlawed too.

I don't understand how so many people justify owning a weapon designed to kill other humans (don't BS me, anyone, restricted firearms weren't designed to protect humans from animals), yet at the same time believe people should not have control over their own bodies.

no its not a useless argument because murder is a mortal sin. I understand that it would be hard to give a baby up for adopption. But anything's better than murder.

Completely off topic, but a wonderful point! :)

Abortion is only a mortal sin in one specific belief system. To impose that belief system on others is opening a VERY dangerous box. Your assumptions only hold up when you believe that your religion is correct.

If I can't have an abortion, you can't eat meat because of my belief system. Sounds fair to me.

i was speaking from a Religious standpoint...
scientifically=murder
Constitutionally=wrong

You keep on repeating the word "murder". That's not debating, it's not even arguing. Most people don't consider abortion a murder. It's just an opinion held by few. And being an opinion doesn't make it a fact.

Mortal sin doesn't mean anything to someone who isn't religious, so that's a moot point too.


How would you try to convince a non religious woman who doesn't think abortion is a murder to not go for an adoption? Screaming that it's a murder and it's a sin wouldn't make any difference to her.

It's not scientifically murder. You can't use science to label abortion murder - science doesn't measure that sort of stuff.

And constitutionally it's not wrong, otherwise it'd be illegal.

I suggest everyone reads this post several times.

Bravo.