Plime/1Autistic boy banned from church : ATOM 0.3Autistic boy banned from church : ATOM 0.3www.plime.complime@plime.com2009, www.plime.com.2009-11-08T13:31:45+01:00<![CDATA[Autistic boy banned from church]]>623892008-05-19T16:22:26+01:002008-05-19T16:22:26+01:00The Todd County Sheriff told Adam's mom if she did take him to St. Joseph's, she would be arrested.]]>
<![CDATA[wildgrits @ 5/22/2008 1:54:42 AM]]>262161 If we put aside the fact that the word Autism is being used and look at it another way.
If you where in church and your baby started to cry inconsolably, would you just sit there with you baby in your arms and...]]>2008-05-22T01:54:42+01:002008-05-22T01:54:42+01:00 If we put aside the fact that the word Autism is being used and look at it another way.
If you where in church and your baby started to cry inconsolably, would you just sit there with you baby in your arms and let him cry it out?
Or would you removed yourself and your child so that others could enjoy the service in peace?
There has been many of times in my life as a mom that I have had to leave church early, as well as restaurants, and other places where proper behavior is expected.
I would be mortified to be asked to leave from my parish because as a parent I was disrespectful of my fellows.
And that is really what it boils down to. I doubt anyone is blaming this family for having an Autistic child. It is the lack of respect they are showing the people around them.]]><![CDATA[gammerus @ 5/20/2008 12:16:23 AM]]>260782«tundramonkey : You're comparing apples to oranges here. A woman politely draping a blanket over her chest while she breastfeeds is nothing like ...]]>2008-05-20T00:16:23+01:002008-05-20T00:16:23+01:00«tundramonkey : You're comparing apples to oranges here. A woman politely draping a blanket over her chest while she breastfeeds is nothing like a large boy urinating and pushing people around.
I always wonder why breasts make people so uncomfortable, but that belongs in another thread.Breast feeding is just weird because breasts represent both nurturing, and a sex symbol in our society.]]><![CDATA[tundramonkey @ 5/19/2008 9:04:36 PM]]>260692«T1000 :
It kind of like the ladies who breastfeed their babies in church...What do you do? Who should be made uncomfortable? The woman ...]]>2008-05-19T21:04:36+01:002008-05-19T21:04:36+01:00«T1000 :
It kind of like the ladies who breastfeed their babies in church...What do you do? Who should be made uncomfortable? The woman because she has to go out in the lobby, or the people around her who may not want to see her breasts?You're comparing apples to oranges here. A woman politely draping a blanket over her chest while she breastfeeds is nothing like a large boy urinating and pushing people around.
I always wonder why breasts make people so uncomfortable, but that belongs in another thread.]]><![CDATA[tundramonkey @ 5/19/2008 9:02:52 PM]]>260690«WeeBeastie : From a report on my local news, it appears the church has offered several alternate accommodations. Mass at home, mediation and ...]]>2008-05-19T21:02:52+01:002008-05-19T21:02:52+01:00«WeeBeastie : From a report on my local news, it appears the church has offered several alternate accommodations. Mass at home, mediation and CCTV in another room at church were mentioned. IMHO, these are all very viable options, especially the CCTV. The family has turned them all down.Good info on the followup. I found myself thinking just this as I was reading the article. Why wouldn't the church offer alternatives such as mass at home or a separate mass (say, earlier in the morning)?
If this boy is urinating in church and - revving another person's car (gah! What if the brake slipped? People bowling?) - other people shouldn't have to put their lives at risk so that this boy can attend church.
Seeing as how there were alternative solutions offered, I have little sympathy for this family in this situation. If a big boy smacked my kid and pushed over my grandma, I'd be requesting a restraining order as well.]]><![CDATA[zzz @ 5/19/2008 8:12:32 PM]]>260653 The church may have tried to accomodate him, but if he poses even a potential risk, the church is responsible to protect the majority.
This is a private business, the church has the right to accept or...]]>2008-05-19T20:12:32+01:002008-05-19T20:12:32+01:00 The church may have tried to accomodate him, but if he poses even a potential risk, the church is responsible to protect the majority.
This is a private business, the church has the right to accept or deny whomever they want.]]><![CDATA[iamtoni78 @ 5/19/2008 7:45:49 PM]]>260636«T1000 : Hmmm...OK then. To expand, he kind of went from utterly unresponsive to screaming, sometimes in the middle, but usually at either extrem...]]>2008-05-19T19:45:49+01:002008-05-19T19:45:49+01:00«T1000 : Hmmm...OK then. To expand, he kind of went from utterly unresponsive to screaming, sometimes in the middle, but usually at either extreme. And whatever he was doing at any given time, absolutely had to be "completed", whatever his definition of that was at the current moment.
Is that a good schemata of how an autistic child behaves, or not so much?Moderate level autistic son here. What you just described is more descriptions of autistic children. Ugh..just thought, school is going to be out soon. Time to get him on a new schedule. My life is going to be hell for 2 weeks after the 30th.]]><![CDATA[larknet @ 5/19/2008 7:34:39 PM]]>2606232008-05-19T19:34:39+01:002008-05-19T19:34:39+01:00 Autism has many factors and severities. My student is really on the more functioning end of the spectrum whereas this boy in the story might not be. I appreciate the insight from WeeBeastie. Amazing what the story leaves out to make it a more compelling issue. If the parents aren't discussing any and all options they are more to blame than their son.]]><![CDATA[bunnysutra @ 5/19/2008 7:18:36 PM]]>260606«Moe:You are throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
If you were so dismayed by locking the door during a fellowship gathering, why ...]]>2008-05-19T19:18:36+01:002008-05-19T19:18:36+01:00«Moe:You are throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
If you were so dismayed by locking the door during a fellowship gathering, why didn't you ask that the practice be changed? And if it was not changed, go to a different church.
If you don't believe in what they teach, that is one thing, but please don't condemn an entire religion based on the actions of a few bad apples.Because I was 15 and when I complained to my mother she said "that's just life - deal with it"
I went to a catholic church for mass with the neighbors, was told I didn't have the right creds to do all the steps of mass --
at the pentacostal church I didn't apparently "get into it" enough and the other kids teased me
my mormon friends wouldn't discuss anything with me unless I agreed to some 'informational sessions'
and it was the episcopal church that was afraid of the homeless.
For ME - the baby and the bath water are the same. I still advocate for this woman to be able to worship with her family as she sees fit. For me personally I'd take the request to leave and go where I'm wanted. that's just my little humble opinion...based on experience.]]><![CDATA[gammerus @ 5/19/2008 6:40:19 PM]]>2605752008-05-19T18:40:19+01:002008-05-19T18:40:19+01:00<![CDATA[belvario @ 5/19/2008 6:32:32 PM]]>260571 I don't think "restraining order" would be at the top of the list...]]>2008-05-19T18:32:32+01:002008-05-19T18:32:32+01:00 I don't think "restraining order" would be at the top of the list...]]><![CDATA[T1000 @ 5/19/2008 6:17:45 PM]]>260558«arsphidius : That's exactly how autistic kids act when they can't deal with what is going on around them. I should know, my son is autistic.2008-05-19T18:17:45+01:002008-05-19T18:17:45+01:00«arsphidius : That's exactly how autistic kids act when they can't deal with what is going on around them. I should know, my son is autistic.Hmmm...OK then. To expand, he kind of went from utterly unresponsive to screaming, sometimes in the middle, but usually at either extreme. And whatever he was doing at any given time, absolutely had to be "completed", whatever his definition of that was at the current moment.
Is that a good schemata of how an autistic child behaves, or not so much?]]><![CDATA[Moe @ 5/19/2008 6:14:07 PM]]>260557«bunnysutra : Doesn't surprise me in the least -- based on my experience with organized religion. I was lucky enough to have parents that let me e...]]>2008-05-19T18:14:07+01:002008-05-19T18:14:07+01:00«bunnysutra : Doesn't surprise me in the least -- based on my experience with organized religion. I was lucky enough to have parents that let me explore and go with friends to different faiths.
I was dismayed that all of them had some form of eletist thinking. "my own" church was careful to lock it's doors during after mass punch and pie because they didn't want the homeless 'to come begging'
imho- I wouldn't want to have my kid around those folks, autistic or not.You are throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
If you were so dismayed by locking the door during a fellowship gathering, why didn't you ask that the practice be changed? And if it was not changed, go to a different church.
If you don't believe in what they teach, that is one thing, but please don't condemn an entire religion based on the actions of a few bad apples.]]><![CDATA[Moe @ 5/19/2008 6:09:17 PM]]>260554«WeeBeastie : From a report on my local news, it appears the church has offered several alternate accommodations. Mass at home, mediation and ...]]>2008-05-19T18:09:17+01:002008-05-19T18:09:17+01:00«WeeBeastie : From a report on my local news, it appears the church has offered several alternate accommodations. Mass at home, mediation and CCTV in another room at church were mentioned. IMHO, these are all very viable options, especially the CCTV. The family has turned them all down.
The family needs to step up and take some responsibility for the boy's behavior. Writing it off by saying "Oh, he's autistic" is a cop out. Even the most severely autistic child can be given tools to cope in that kind of situations. By allowing him to do things like get in other people s cars just shows they're not in control.THIS is exactly correct. If the parents have denied three viable alternatives, then the burden shifts to THEM. You cannot hide behind a medical condition ad infinitum. The kid is getting into people's cars. If someone gets killed it will be THE PARENTS who will be at fault and sued.
They need to grow up and exercise some parental control.]]><![CDATA[arsphidius @ 5/19/2008 6:06:42 PM]]>260552«T1000 : I remember this one kid we had at church at a basketball camp, and supposedly he was autistic (this sounds terrible) but really...]]>2008-05-19T18:06:42+01:002008-05-19T18:06:42+01:00«T1000 : I remember this one kid we had at church at a basketball camp, and supposedly he was autistic (this sounds terrible) but really I think he was just a brat. He threw fits like no other. Just screaming and screaming, throwing himself on the ground, etc.
That's exactly how autistic kids act when they can't deal with what is going on around them. I should know, my son is autistic.]]><![CDATA[WeeBeastie @ 5/19/2008 5:54:52 PM]]>2605372008-05-19T17:54:52+01:002008-05-19T17:54:52+01:00 The family needs to step up and take some responsibility for the boy's behavior. Writing it off by saying "Oh, he's autistic" is a cop out. Even the most severely autistic child can be given tools to cope in that kind of situations. By allowing him to do things like get in other people s cars just shows they're not in control.]]><![CDATA[2manyusernames @ 5/19/2008 5:35:12 PM]]>260522«T1000 : Just a bit of biomechanics trivia: Usually old people's hips break and then they fall. Everyone thinks it's the other way around. They us...]]>2008-05-19T17:35:12+01:002008-05-19T17:35:12+01:00«T1000 : Just a bit of biomechanics trivia: Usually old people's hips break and then they fall. Everyone thinks it's the other way around. They usually break their femurs right at the start of the epiphysis, which is an area of high stress as the force of body weight moves from vertical to horizontal.Ah, quite interesting thanks.]]><![CDATA[T1000 @ 5/19/2008 5:27:37 PM]]>260516«2manyusernames
Who should pay if he hurts someone accidentally? Knocking over an older person could be quite serious with their weaker b...]]>2008-05-19T17:27:37+01:002008-05-19T17:27:37+01:00«2manyusernames
Who should pay if he hurts someone accidentally? Knocking over an older person could be quite serious with their weaker bones. Just a bit of biomechanics trivia: Usually old people's hips break and then they fall. Everyone thinks it's the other way around. They usually break their femurs right at the start of the epiphysis, which is an area of high stress as the force of body weight moves from vertical to horizontal.]]><![CDATA[bunnysutra @ 5/19/2008 5:22:55 PM]]>260512 I was dismayed that all of them had some form of eletist thinking....]]>2008-05-19T17:22:55+01:002008-05-19T17:22:55+01:00 I was dismayed that all of them had some form of eletist thinking. "my own" church was careful to lock it's doors during after mass punch and pie because they didn't want the homeless 'to come begging'
imho- I wouldn't want to have my kid around those folks, autistic or not.]]><![CDATA[2manyusernames @ 5/19/2008 5:18:19 PM]]>260509 If his actions including the alleged striking of people and almost knocking them down, not to mention urinating in the church is not sufficient what is? Assuming that the church is telli...]]>2008-05-19T17:18:19+01:002008-05-19T17:18:19+01:00 If his actions including the alleged striking of people and almost knocking them down, not to mention urinating in the church is not sufficient what is? Assuming that the church is telling the truth and that the mother is not stretching things just a bit.
How bad does an individual have to be for a church to be justified in insisting that the child not attend that church?
Who should pay if he hurts someone accidentally? Knocking over an older person could be quite serious with their weaker bones.
It is a matter of safety and hygene, not "comfort". I wouldn't compare this to breastfeeding. The most that might happen when a woman is breastfeeding is a slap upside a guy's head from his wife.
The worst that could happen from knocking people down, striking them, urinating, etc is a wee bit worse.
also: Carol blames Adam's worst behavior, revving a church member's running car after mass, on a lack of accommodation from the church.
The kid goes into another member's car and he starts revving it up [which could have created a HUGE disaster if he took it out of park deliberately or accidentally] and it is the CHURCH'S fault!?
How can a "lack of accommodation" be the cause of the kid doing that? What sort of accommodation would have prevented it? Restraints? Maybe the car shouldn't have been left running, but that is the fault of the individual not the church and in any case doesn't reduce the tragedy that could have resulted.]]><![CDATA[T1000 @ 5/19/2008 5:15:39 PM]]>2605062008-05-19T17:15:39+01:002008-05-19T17:15:39+01:00 My point is though, no one forced him to leave. He got time outs and such, but he wasn't banned from attending.
It kind of like the ladies who breastfeed their babies in church...What do you do? Who should be made uncomfortable? The woman because she has to go out in the lobby, or the people around her who may not want to see her breasts?]]><![CDATA[kidsizedcoffin @ 5/19/2008 5:14:35 PM]]>260503«cycostinkoman : I say they would be half full. I say the church would be twice as big as it needs to be.
It is of no surpr...]]>2008-05-19T17:14:35+01:002008-05-19T17:14:35+01:00«cycostinkoman : I say they would be half full. I say the church would be twice as big as it needs to be.
It is of no surprise that the mother took the victim mentality in this case. Just because you have a child with difficulties and/or disabilities, doesn't mean you have to subject other people to it.]]><![CDATA[cycostinkoman @ 5/19/2008 5:00:55 PM]]>260487«Nicky666 : I hope those people realize that their god made him the way he is. I don't think He appreciates it if you keep his son out of His ...]]>2008-05-19T17:00:55+01:002008-05-19T17:00:55+01:00«Nicky666 : I hope those people realize that their god made him the way he is. I don't think He appreciates it if you keep his son out of His house.
Besides....if you want to keep all incontinent people out of church, churches would be half empty.I say they would be half full.
My church has been screwing up a lot of things lately, but they would never stoop this low.
EDIT: It seems like he is causing a lot of trouble, but they shouldnt ban him. Although it should be the mothers responsibility to realize everyone would be better off (including him) if he was taught about God somewhere else, or differently.]]><![CDATA[Nicky666 @ 5/19/2008 4:39:27 PM]]>260472I don't think He appreciates it if you keep his son out of His house.
Besides....if you want to keep all incontinent people out of church, churches would be...]]>2008-05-19T16:39:27+01:002008-05-19T16:39:27+01:00I don't think He appreciates it if you keep his son out of His house.
Besides....if you want to keep all incontinent people out of church, churches would be half empty.]]>