Plime/1Kids Pulled From Transgender Teacher's Class : ATOM 0.3Kids Pulled From Transgender Teacher's Class : ATOM 0.3www.plime.complime@plime.com2009, www.plime.com.2009-12-01T23:17:06+01:00<![CDATA[Kids Pulled From Transgender Teacher's Class]]>796542008-10-16T20:33:01+01:002008-10-16T20:33:01+01:00
<![CDATA[TheAnt314 @ 10/19/2008 4:46:01 PM]]>359389After all, there's probably some story you could tell your kids that could lessen the blow, much like answers to the "where ...]]>2008-10-19T16:46:01+01:002008-10-19T16:46:01+01:00After all, there's probably some story you could tell your kids that could lessen the blow, much like answers to the "where do babies come from" question.]]><![CDATA[drogue @ 10/18/2008 12:59:20 AM]]>358676«shuallyo : I don't care who disagrees with me on this... It's a sad time when we even have to discuss this...
It can be very ...]]>2008-10-18T00:59:20+01:002008-10-18T00:59:20+01:00«shuallyo : I don't care who disagrees with me on this... It's a sad time when we even have to discuss this...
It can be very confusing for a child whose teacher was a woman.... leaves for a bit... and is now a man... come on.. how can anyone here defend the teacher? He/She knew there would be a reaction like this.
It's the parents' right to be upset...C'mon, if the teacher from the story had alerted the kids about the sex reassignment, even before having the surgery, the same parents would probably be shrieking about how inappropriate it was to bring it up at all. The elephant in the room is that the parents were just plain "freaked out at the she-man," and probably are not as informed as they could be about the wide spectrum of sexual identification in humans.
The fact is, California has laws prohibiting discrimination based on a person's sex, which includes people who have changed their sex. And it has laws to protect the privacy of its employees. That's it. If a California resident changes their sex, the state will change their birth certificate, whether they were born here or not, and for all legal purposes, that person is now a man or woman. Period. Not a half-man, or an almost-woman, or a "well, let's talk about it first," but a man or a woman.
The end result is, yeah, the parents have the right to pull them from the class (if it's not required) and deny them an important part of their education in order to "protect" them from possible confusion, but I'm saying they're doing their kids a disservice in doing so.]]><![CDATA[nikneven @ 10/18/2008 12:09:02 AM]]>358657«larknet : There is a trust relationship between teachers and students. Something this serious could have been discussed and a dialog could...]]>2008-10-18T00:09:02+01:002008-10-18T00:09:02+01:00«larknet : There is a trust relationship between teachers and students. Something this serious could have been discussed and a dialog could have been established. If he had brought it up to the students, his ass would be fired right now and everyone knows it. It would also be completely inappropriate, whether he was bringing up being trans or talking about divorce or pregnancy or anything remotely like that... elementary school]]><![CDATA[sofsr @ 10/17/2008 9:59:21 PM]]>358559«larknet:In our previous discussions this "outing" wasn't something that can go unnoticed. Yes, the teacher should have his personal p...]]>2008-10-17T21:59:21+01:002008-10-17T21:59:21+01:00«larknet:In our previous discussions this "outing" wasn't something that can go unnoticed. Yes, the teacher should have his personal privacy. This is a much bigger issue than someone trying to live their life and keeping to themselves. It was still his descision on whether on not to say, and he had every right not to. The school istelf could not do so legally, as they could be sued for it. Whether the parents were offended or not or whether they dissagreed with the transition or not, there was no responsibility for them to be told. And I'd like to add that many transsexuals prefer not to openly state that they are, even if other people know. Why? Because they don't identify as transsexuals. They identify as men or women. This isn't an issue of the parents removing the kids from the class. The teacher himself did not bring this topic up, and was very likely expecting that reaction. It was the parents who demanded information that the school could not legally release and the teacher was not legally required to give.]]><![CDATA[larknet @ 10/17/2008 9:33:19 PM]]>358538«sofsr : Because the teacher has a right to his privacy, and was not hurting anybody in any way. He didn't pull off his pants and show ...]]>2008-10-17T21:33:19+01:002008-10-17T21:33:19+01:00«sofsr : Because the teacher has a right to his privacy, and was not hurting anybody in any way. He didn't pull off his pants and show it off to all the kids, he simply was living his life.
Just as you could not out a kid who was gay to all the parents of the students in his or her classes, you cannot out the teachers.In our previous discussions this "outing" wasn't something that can go unnoticed. Yes, the teacher should have his personal privacy. This is a much bigger issue than someone trying to live their life and keeping to themselves.
I had a music teaching in high school who became a very close and personal friend. Her husband died last year and she died just a few weeks ago, both from cancer. If we took summer off and we came back and she was now a man I would have felt a little betrayed. There is a trust relationship between teachers and students. Something this serious could have been discussed and a dialog could have been established. This would have been a much different new story (and yes, we would have seen it on Plime if it had happened that way). You don't just decide one day to change genders. In previous posts it was mentioned that this is something that happens over time and isn't taken lightly. A gender change affects more than just the one person and if that one person expects people to just "deal with it" when it is thrust upon them, they are going to be very sadly mistaken. As I said before, if this was a perfect world, this wouldn't be a story.]]><![CDATA[shuallyo @ 10/17/2008 7:56:39 PM]]>358472«sofsr : Because the teacher has a right to his privacy, and was not hurting anybody in any way. He didn't pull off his pants and show ...]]>2008-10-17T19:56:39+01:002008-10-17T19:56:39+01:00«sofsr : Because the teacher has a right to his privacy, and was not hurting anybody in any way. He didn't pull off his pants and show it off to all the kids, he simply was living his life.
Just as you could not out a kid who was gay to all the parents of the students in his or her classes, you cannot out the teachers.I'm all for personal freedom. I'm not suggesting the teacher go to jail... I'm saying that the parents were justified with their actions.]]><![CDATA[sofsr @ 10/17/2008 7:49:04 PM]]>358468«shuallyo:I don't care who disagrees with me on this... It's a sad time when we even have to discuss this...
It can be very confusing fo...]]>2008-10-17T19:49:04+01:002008-10-17T19:49:04+01:00«shuallyo:I don't care who disagrees with me on this... It's a sad time when we even have to discuss this...
It can be very confusing for a child whose teacher was a woman.... leaves for a bit... and is now a man... come on.. how can anyone here defend the teacher? He/She knew there would be a reaction like this.
It's the parents' right to be upset...Because the teacher has a right to his privacy, and was not hurting anybody in any way. He didn't pull off his pants and show it off to all the kids, he simply was living his life.
Just as you could not out a kid who was gay to all the parents of the students in his or her classes, you cannot out the teachers.]]><![CDATA[shuallyo @ 10/17/2008 7:39:29 PM]]>358460 It can be very confusing for a child whose teacher was a woman.... leaves for a bit... and is now a man... come on.. how can anyone here defend the...]]>2008-10-17T19:39:29+01:002008-10-17T19:39:29+01:00 It can be very confusing for a child whose teacher was a woman.... leaves for a bit... and is now a man... come on.. how can anyone here defend the teacher? He/She knew there would be a reaction like this.
It's the parents' right to be upset...]]><![CDATA[gratheo @ 10/17/2008 6:16:11 PM]]>358414 All those of you who are saying that he should have given some sort of advanced warning - what exactly would you suggest? 'oh, next week I'm having my SRS, and when I come back I'm going to be transitioning. Don'...]]>2008-10-17T18:16:11+01:002008-10-17T18:16:11+01:00 All those of you who are saying that he should have given some sort of advanced warning - what exactly would you suggest? 'oh, next week I'm having my SRS, and when I come back I'm going to be transitioning. Don't get too shocked, OK?'
...yeah, that seems likely to work.
Fact is that there isn't a simple way to bring up the concept of transitioning. It's scary as hell, and not something ANYONE undergoes lightly.
«Fizz71 : But a 6 year girl doesn't need to know that if she feels like she got the short end of the stick she can just go buy a penis or just be called a boy...which is what she will learn if I don't know about the sex change.
...OK, let me explain something quickly. Transsexuality is NOT, I repeat NOT about 'feeling like you've got the short end of the stick'. No therapist worth half a damn will allow/prescribe hormones to someone who isn't trans, and is clearly trying to turn around their life. It's not a little thing, being trans - it's a HUGE feeling of intense discomfort with who you are which gets worse and worse as time goes on, until you hit puberty and your life turns into a real life horror movie. Sofs is right when she mentions that the rate of suicide among pre-op transpeople is HUGE - some estimates place it at nearly one in three. Obviously that's a percentage you start to worry about. Now, I'll be frank and admit that yes, I did contemplate suicide for a fair while. It's one of the scariest things in the world to have puberty take you further and further away from where you want to be, SHOULD be, and to look in the mirror and hate what you see with the core of your being. And yes, I tried to commit suicide. I'm not proud of it, and it was a while back, but at the time I honestly felt it was a better alternative to going on the way things were. And who knows, if I hadn't come out, maybe it would have been. Again, I'm not proud of the fact, but it remains a good emphasis on the fact that transsexuality a) is NOT a choice, and b) is f**king serious.]]><![CDATA[Fizz71 @ 10/17/2008 4:58:07 PM]]>358370«arsphidius : By your logic, teachers who become pregnant should be fired, because the pregnancy has a whole lot to do with sexuality....]]>2008-10-17T16:58:07+01:002008-10-17T16:58:07+01:00«arsphidius : By your logic, teachers who become pregnant should be fired, because the pregnancy has a whole lot to do with sexuality. What if the kids don't know how babies are made? This would just "slap them in the face", would it not?Fired? No...never said fired. And pregnancy isn't much of a change..to a child they're just getting fatter. If they (the child) choose to press the issue and ask why they're fatter then it should get back to me! Example..if my kid asked her teacher why her belly's getting bigger I would like to think she'd tactfully say something to my child (or me) so that it would start a converstaion I can have with my child using words I know she'll understand. I know I would do it (and yes I'm a teacher..but not a regular school..but I still work with very young children). If the kid says nothing about the big tummy..then just move on...nothing to discuss yet.
The bottom line here is this...School is a unique situation (simlar to day care) where my child is being exposed to things without me witnessing them. Issues that warrant discussions that I need to have with my child need to be relayed to me as a courtesy. There is an obvious difference between a sex change and a pregnancy, the school should be able to see this and say...Hey...maybe we need to tell parents about this one.
If my neighbors are gay and my kid is friends with their kid I will know that they are gay. I would know because before my child is left alone with either one of those parents I would have met them...therefor I could explain things to my child if I thought she needed it. At school however...I would know NOTHING, becuase the bus comes, the bus goes, the bus comes back...what happens in between I now have to guess with the exception of an occasional "meet the teacher night".
Like I said in a post above...it's about a teacher's position in a young child's life and their responsibilty to communicate with me. There should be different rules when it comes to caregivers of really small children. I send my girl to school to learn letters, numbers, math, and yes..life. But a 6 year girl doesn't need to know that if she feels like she got the short end of the stick she can just go buy a penis or just be called a boy...which is what she will learn if I don't know about the sex change.
Believe it or not..not all kids come to their parents to talk! (duh) ..a heads-up..that's all I want...a head-up is what I deserve.]]><![CDATA[sofsr @ 10/17/2008 4:35:20 PM]]>358357«larknet:Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, it was noticed. Did he expect nothing to happen at all? That life would just go on as if h...]]>2008-10-17T16:35:20+01:002008-10-17T16:35:20+01:00«larknet:Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, it was noticed. Did he expect nothing to happen at all? That life would just go on as if he hadn't gone through with the procedure? In a perfect world that would be... perfect. But we don't live in a perfect world. We live in a world where people react to change and sometimes not so friendly. It isn't right and it isn't fair, but it happens. A gender change is internally private and personal, but it isn't so externally.No, he probably did not expect it to go as it normally would. This probably wasn't very shocking to him, just sad. I mean, he's not suing the parents for discrimination, and he didn't even comment in the article. The article is about the parents demanding to be informed that the procedure was done, and it was not in their rights to be informed of that matter. They did have the right to change their kids class after finding out, though it's sad that they had done so as it deprives their children of a very valuable learning experience.]]><![CDATA[Fizz71 @ 10/17/2008 4:32:32 PM]]>358353«lynxears:And who determines what age is appropriate for the kids to understand it?ME!!! ..that's my job as "Parent" And no...]]>2008-10-17T16:32:32+01:002008-10-17T16:32:32+01:00«lynxears:And who determines what age is appropriate for the kids to understand it?ME!!! ..that's my job as "Parent" And not necessarly WHEN as much as HOW MUCH. I understand my child, I know how much info she needs or is ready for.
«lynxears : Because, hate to break it to you, there are kids whose parents are gay. I bet they understand it pretty early on... just because your 5-year-old hasn't encountered it doesn't mean it should be kept from him. Welcome to the world. Kids can be taught these things. It's healthy to find out the world has different people in it.
Whole-heartedly agree...All I want is a "heads-up" from somebody if the person in question is an authority figure/role model so I prep my kid for it.
«lynxears : (Btw, on your answer, ...every relationship would be 'sexuality-based.' I'm heterosexual. Do I need to explain that to kids if I taught? No; you only want it held away if it isn't he majority view.)
No...You missed my point...your sexual preference should be irrelevant because it's not something you should be discussing with my kid (as a teacher). They would never know either way which is how it should be..but when you go from MISS to MISTER it now becomes apparent.
«lynxears : If I were a parent in this situation, I'd talk to my kid about it, explain that some people just aren't happy in their bodies and so change them (which is also my talk for breast augmentation, etc.). And then I'd go to the school and tell the teacher that I think he was brave for what he did and that I support him.
EXACLTY...although I wouldn't bother talking to the teacher, or calling him brave or whatever..it's none of my business. However...I would want a heads up...that's all I'm arguing...not his/her rights...not his/her preferenece...just that there should be different rules applied for people who are providers to my child to give me advanced warning about things that warrent a discussion with my child.]]><![CDATA[larknet @ 10/17/2008 4:13:32 PM]]>358334«sofsr They had no right to be informed, whether the operation is noticed or not.Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, it w...]]>2008-10-17T16:13:32+01:002008-10-17T16:13:32+01:00«sofsr They had no right to be informed, whether the operation is noticed or not.Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, it was noticed. Did he expect nothing to happen at all? That life would just go on as if he hadn't gone through with the procedure? In a perfect world that would be... perfect. But we don't live in a perfect world. We live in a world where people react to change and sometimes not so friendly. It isn't right and it isn't fair, but it happens. A gender change is internally private and personal, but it isn't so externally.]]><![CDATA[ReBoot @ 10/17/2008 4:01:29 PM]]>3583252008-10-17T16:01:29+01:002008-10-17T16:01:29+01:00<![CDATA[larknet @ 10/17/2008 3:58:12 PM]]>358323«nikneven:I respect everyone's different opinions and all, but when you insist on calling him (the teacher) "SHE" in capital letters o...]]>2008-10-17T15:58:12+01:002008-10-17T15:58:12+01:00«nikneven:I respect everyone's different opinions and all, but when you insist on calling him (the teacher) "SHE" in capital letters or repeatedly using feminine pronouns to make your point instead of actually making a point, or otherwise indicating that this is just some crazy whim, all you are doing is insulting everyone and looking like a jackass.
Debate is fine, disagreeing with someones opinions, choices, whatever is fine. But damn it would be nice if people could show a little respect for others, even especially if you disagree with them.If I could upvote you more, I would. Not so bad in this topic, but others I have seen in the past.]]><![CDATA[nikneven @ 10/17/2008 3:54:47 PM]]>3583192008-10-17T15:54:47+01:002008-10-17T15:54:47+01:00 Debate is fine, disagreeing with someones opinions, choices, whatever is fine. But damn it would be nice if people could show a little respect for others, even especially if you disagree with them.]]><![CDATA[sofsr @ 10/17/2008 3:24:38 PM]]>358304«smarty1052:So because they threaten suicide they should be given anything they want? Life's depressing for me being poor and not rich.. It's d...]]>2008-10-17T15:24:38+01:002008-10-17T15:24:38+01:00«smarty1052:So because they threaten suicide they should be given anything they want? Life's depressing for me being poor and not rich.. It's depressing being black at times but i'm not gonna go get a quick fix for it, and I doubt the government would just give me money or pay for an operation to make me not black.. lots of poor people kill themselves as well peopel that cant support their families kill themselves and their families with them at times.. If this teacher really was suicidal prior to getting the operation then they shouldn't have been teaching in the first placeWait, WHAT?! When did I argue the government should pay for the operations? And 'threatening' suicide generally means you're not suicidal. They actually kill themselves. Pre-operative transsexuals have some of the highest rates of suicide in the United States. And how is denying them a job going to help that? That's going to make it more likely, since they wouldn't be able to pay for even the hormones.
And it's much more horrible than losing a leg. MUCH more. You can choose not to get a prosthetic and, though it wouldn't be great, still be relatively happy. Transsexuals have two options: One is to, at minimum, go on hormones. Taking that option, they can lose their jobs in many states and countries, face constant discrimination, are very likely to be killed(Sixteen times more likely than their cisgendered counterparts), and may not even be allowed to marry depending on the laws of the states/countries they're in. Option two is to bottle it in and do nothing about it, while the feelings of dysphoria become stronger and stronger until suicide is guarenteed. And how is he in denial of anything? The parents are outraged that they were not informed of his transition, and the school had ever right not to inform them based on privacy laws. Having a prosthetic leg is a life altering descision, too, and it's noticed by all. Should the parents be warned that their teacher has a fake leg? They had no right to be informed, whether the operation is noticed or not.]]><![CDATA[larknet @ 10/17/2008 2:42:46 PM]]>358274«sofsr:...Changing their sexual orientation? That...Has nothing to do with transsexuals. Transsexuals usually change their sex to the limi...]]>2008-10-17T14:42:46+01:002008-10-17T14:42:46+01:00«sofsr:...Changing their sexual orientation? That...Has nothing to do with transsexuals. Transsexuals usually change their sex to the limit that medical knowledge and their bank accounts will allow (Insurance doesn't cover any of the surgeries. The hormones are SOMETIMES covered). And it's not a choice at all. Do you know what happens to the average transsexual that doesn't at least start hormone treatment? The depression gets to the point where they kill themselves, and no amount of medications or therapy sessions can stop them. To say that being born having having ones gender be incongruous with their sex is horrible would be severely understating just how bad it is.I changed the "sexual orientation" to "gender". It is more inline with what I meant to say.
I am sure it is a horrible thing to go through, but comparing it to losing a leg? You mention the "average transexual". How average is it really and when you choose to change your gender and expect it NOT to affect someone else by claiming it is personal, you might as well lock yourself into a room where nobody else can see what has occurred. In the case we have here, the teacher chose to have this life altering procedure but is in denial that it was entirely personal. Maybe the parents were a bit overzealous in removing their kids from the class, but maybe it wouldn't have been such a issue if they had been informed of the procedure. Maybe a letter addressed to the parents and students stating that "Ms. Harris will now be known as Mr. Harris. This issue was a personal choice by Mr. Harris and we respect his decision". Simple, easy, non-confrontational.]]><![CDATA[smarty1052 @ 10/17/2008 2:36:21 PM]]>358266«sofsr : ...Changing their sexual orientation? That...Has nothing to do with transsexuals. Transsexuals usually change their sex...]]>2008-10-17T14:36:21+01:002008-10-17T14:36:21+01:00«sofsr : ...Changing their sexual orientation? That...Has nothing to do with transsexuals. Transsexuals usually change their sex to the limit that medical knowledge and their bank accounts will allow (Insurance doesn't cover any of the surgeries. The hormones are SOMETIMES covered). And it's not a choice at all. Do you know what happens to the average transsexual that doesn't at least start hormone treatment? The depression gets to the point where they kill themselves, and no amount of medications or therapy sessions can stop them. To say that being born having having ones gender be incongruous with their sex is horrible would be severely understating just how bad it is.So because they threaten suicide they should be given anything they want? Life's depressing for me being poor and not rich.. It's depressing being black at times but i'm not gonna go get a quick fix for it, and I doubt the government would just give me money or pay for an operation to make me not black.. lots of poor people kill themselves as well peopel that cant support their families kill themselves and their families with them at times.. If this teacher really was suicidal prior to getting the operation then they shouldn't have been teaching in the first place]]><![CDATA[arsphidius @ 10/17/2008 2:36:08 PM]]>358265«Fizz71 :
And personally I don't think transgender people should be teaching children if the kids are not at an age to und...]]>2008-10-17T14:36:08+01:002008-10-17T14:36:08+01:00«Fizz71 :
And personally I don't think transgender people should be teaching children if the kids are not at an age to understand it...or homosexuals...or ANY sexuality based lifestyles UNLESS IT IS KEPT PRIVATE. In elementary schoold and middle school and even high school I had NO IDEA if my teachers were gay/straight/trannies/NOTHING because it did not affect my education...I didn't need to know. But when it slaps you in the face like a Miss going to a Mister you are forcing kids to be exposed to things they may not be ready to fully understand.
I agree with the parents....sorry...I would be pissed at the school AND the teacher for not being up-front about it.By your logic, teachers who become pregnant should be fired, because the pregnancy has a whole lot to do with sexuality. What if the kids don't know how babies are made? This would just "slap them in the face", would it not?]]><![CDATA[sofsr @ 10/17/2008 1:43:57 PM]]>358243«larknet:An amputated leg and sexual reassignment are like comparing apples and teacups. One doesn't opt to get a prostetic leg, but, one does w...]]>2008-10-17T13:43:57+01:002008-10-17T13:43:57+01:00«larknet:An amputated leg and sexual reassignment are like comparing apples and teacups. One doesn't opt to get a prostetic leg, but, one does when choosing to change their sexual orientation....Changing their sexual orientation? That...Has nothing to do with transsexuals. Transsexuals usually change their sex to the limit that medical knowledge and their bank accounts will allow (Insurance doesn't cover any of the surgeries. The hormones are SOMETIMES covered). And it's not a choice at all. Do you know what happens to the average transsexual that doesn't at least start hormone treatment? The depression gets to the point where they kill themselves, and no amount of medications or therapy sessions can stop them. To say that being born having having ones gender be incongruous with their sex is horrible would be severely understating just how bad it is.]]><![CDATA[larknet @ 10/17/2008 1:23:57 PM]]>358230«sofsr:Because he shouldn't have to. The same reason someone who has a limb amputated or a prosthetic leg attached shouldn't have to change schoo...]]>2008-10-17T13:23:57+01:002008-10-17T13:23:57+01:00«sofsr:Because he shouldn't have to. The same reason someone who has a limb amputated or a prosthetic leg attached shouldn't have to change schools. They'll have to explain those to the kids too, and they'll sure as hell be a distraction for a while.An amputated leg and sexual reassignment are like comparing apples and teacups. One doesn't opt to get a prostetic leg, but, one does when choosing to change their gender.]]><![CDATA[lynxears @ 10/17/2008 12:39:29 PM]]>358203«Fizz71 : IMO the TEACHER should have done something to prepare the students himself. And personally I don't think transgender people ...]]>2008-10-17T12:39:29+01:002008-10-17T12:39:29+01:00«Fizz71 : IMO the TEACHER should have done something to prepare the students himself. And personally I don't think transgender people should be teaching children if the kids are not at an age to understand it...or homosexuals...or ANY sexuality based lifestyles UNLESS IT IS KEPT PRIVATE. .And who determines what age is appropriate for the kids to understand it? Because, hate to break it to you, there are kids whose parents are gay. I bet they understand it pretty early on... just because your 5-year-old hasn't encountered it doesn't mean it should be kept from him. Welcome to the world. Kids can be taught these things. It's healthy to find out the world has different people in it.
(Btw, on your answer, ...every relationship would be 'sexuality-based.' I'm heterosexual. Do I need to explain that to kids if I taught? No; you only want it held away if it isn't he majority view.)
If I were a parent in this situation, I'd talk to my kid about it, explain that some people just aren't happy in their bodies and so change them (which is also my talk for breast augmentation, etc.). And then I'd go to the school and tell the teacher that I think he was brave for what he did and that I support him.]]><![CDATA[sofsr @ 10/17/2008 12:25:56 PM]]>358200«ReBoot:But the point is, those things don't have anything to do with sexuality.
The sexuality of the teacher should not have a place in...]]>2008-10-17T12:25:56+01:002008-10-17T12:25:56+01:00«ReBoot:But the point is, those things don't have anything to do with sexuality.
The sexuality of the teacher should not have a place in the elementary classroom.Neither does a sex change. Where are you getting the idea that sexuality comes into play? It sure isn't the case for me.]]><![CDATA[ReBoot @ 10/17/2008 12:13:00 PM]]>358194«sofsr:Because she shouldn't have to. The same reason someone who has a limb amputated or a prosthetic leg attached shouldn't have to change scho...]]>2008-10-17T12:13:00+01:002008-10-17T12:13:00+01:00«sofsr:Because she shouldn't have to. The same reason someone who has a limb amputated or a prosthetic leg attached shouldn't have to change schools. They'll have to explain those to the kids too, and they'll sure as hell be a distraction for a while.But the point is, those things don't have anything to do with sexuality.
The sexuality of the teacher should not have a place in the elementary classroom.]]><![CDATA[sofsr @ 10/17/2008 12:09:48 PM]]>358193«larknet:My mother-in-law said something that made sense. Why not have the surgery and move to a different school within the district? Then you...]]>2008-10-17T12:09:48+01:002008-10-17T12:09:48+01:00«larknet:My mother-in-law said something that made sense. Why not have the surgery and move to a different school within the district? Then you have a kind of fresh start. That made a whole lot of sense to me.Because he shouldn't have to. The same reason someone who has a limb amputated or a prosthetic leg attached shouldn't have to change schools. They'll have to explain those to the kids too, and they'll sure as hell be a distraction for a while.]]><![CDATA[larknet @ 10/17/2008 11:54:45 AM]]>3581892008-10-17T11:54:45+01:002008-10-17T11:54:45+01:00<![CDATA[stinkobinko @ 10/17/2008 11:15:56 AM]]>3581712008-10-17T11:15:56+01:002008-10-17T11:15:56+01:00 PS. IMO SRS should be considered elective and cosmetic. However, some TGs have been able to deduct it from their taxes as a medical necessity.]]><![CDATA[Fizz71 @ 10/17/2008 10:51:19 AM]]>3581552008-10-17T10:51:19+01:002008-10-17T10:51:19+01:00 IMO the TEACHER should have done something to prepare the students himself. And personally I don't think transgender people should be teaching children if the kids are not at an age to understand it...or homosexuals...or ANY sexuality based lifestyles UNLESS IT IS KEPT PRIVATE. In elementary schoold and middle school and even high school I had NO IDEA if my teachers were gay/straight/trannies/NOTHING because it did not affect my education...I didn't need to know. But when it slaps you in the face like a Miss going to a Mister you are forcing kids to be exposed to things they may not be ready to fully understand.
I agree with the parents....sorry...I would be pissed at the school AND the teacher for not being up-front about it.]]><![CDATA[ReBoot @ 10/17/2008 10:39:04 AM]]>358149«Fizz71 : What Fizz said.Exactly my point.]]>2008-10-17T10:39:04+01:002008-10-17T10:39:04+01:00«Fizz71 : What Fizz said.Exactly my point.]]><![CDATA[lynxears @ 10/17/2008 10:32:11 AM]]>358142«ReBoot : What if your 10-year-old's teacher is schizophrenic? A pedophile? A satanist? A zoophile? Where do you draw the line?2008-10-17T10:32:11+01:002008-10-17T10:32:11+01:00«ReBoot : What if your 10-year-old's teacher is schizophrenic? A pedophile? A satanist? A zoophile? Where do you draw the line?
It's the parent's right to decide when their kids should learn about sexuality. Personally, I don't think it should be an issue or a 10 year old kid. I think it's ignorant to force issues like this on them at such a young age when you don't have to.Wow, none of those things compare. We now know nothing of the teacher's sexual orientation. This is a medical and legal issue.
A closer comparison would be a really dramatic breast augmentation. If Mrs. A-cup showed up at school with DD-bazongas, would there be a demand that the parents be notified? No, but it has as much bearing on sexuality and students' education as this.
I think it's ignorant to decide that people can't teach children if they are "different."]]><![CDATA[gratheo @ 10/17/2008 10:28:48 AM]]>358140But then again, schools aren't really the most trans-friendly places to begin with. I feel sorry for the poor guy, having to go through wha...]]>2008-10-17T10:28:48+01:002008-10-17T10:28:48+01:00But then again, schools aren't really the most trans-friendly places to begin with. I feel sorry for the poor guy, having to go through what was likely several years of that hellhole before eventually getting his sex change surgery.]]><![CDATA[larknet @ 10/17/2008 10:28:22 AM]]>3581392008-10-17T10:28:22+01:002008-10-17T10:28:22+01:00<![CDATA[Marli @ 10/17/2008 10:21:40 AM]]>3581322008-10-17T10:21:40+01:002008-10-17T10:21:40+01:00 It could have been an opportunity for everyone to show a little trust in one another, and for students and parents both to learn about what it means to be transgendered, and instead it turned into a news story.]]><![CDATA[ReBoot @ 10/17/2008 10:19:57 AM]]>358129«lynxears:Why? Why is it your right to know something that's personal to the teacher and doesn't affect your students' education at all?2008-10-17T10:19:57+01:002008-10-17T10:19:57+01:00«lynxears:Why? Why is it your right to know something that's personal to the teacher and doesn't affect your students' education at all?What if your 10-year-old's teacher is schizophrenic? A pedophile? A satanist? A zoophile? Where do you draw the line?
It's the parent's right to decide when their kids should learn about sexuality. Personally, I don't think it should be an issue or a 10 year old kid. I think it's ignorant to force issues like this on them at such a young age when you don't have to.
[Edit:] Wow, I've been downvoted for having an opinion other than the majority lean. What a surprise! :P]]><![CDATA[lynxears @ 10/17/2008 10:10:41 AM]]>358124«ReBoot : Privacy act, huh? The question is, where do you draw the line?
If this person was going to be taking care of my 10...]]>2008-10-17T10:10:41+01:002008-10-17T10:10:41+01:00«ReBoot : Privacy act, huh? The question is, where do you draw the line?
If this person was going to be taking care of my 10-year-old kid for a portion of the day, I'd want to know. And privacy act or not, I think she had a responsibility to inform the parents of her decision.Why? Why is it your right to know something that's personal to the teacher and doesn't affect your students' education at all?]]><![CDATA[ReBoot @ 10/17/2008 10:04:59 AM]]>358122 If this person was going to be taking care of my 10-year-old kid for a portion of the day, I'd want to know. And privacy act or not, I think she had a responsibility to inform the pa...]]>2008-10-17T10:04:59+01:002008-10-17T10:04:59+01:00 If this person was going to be taking care of my 10-year-old kid for a portion of the day, I'd want to know. And privacy act or not, I think she had a responsibility to inform the parents of her decision.]]><![CDATA[drogue @ 10/17/2008 9:46:09 AM]]>358117«smarty1052 : I'm pretty sure some of the kids had a say in it as well.. don't go blaming it all on the parents.. If I was in a music ...]]>2008-10-17T09:46:09+01:002008-10-17T09:46:09+01:00«smarty1052 : I'm pretty sure some of the kids had a say in it as well.. don't go blaming it all on the parents.. If I was in a music class at that age and my teacher came back as a man, and after watching south park which the youth of today does do.. I'd totally opt for gym class or music class.You might, but unfortunately for you, South Park, and "Why you trippin', Lady-Nipples?" doesn't make up the proper framework for a privacy policy for public servants.]]><![CDATA[smarty1052 @ 10/17/2008 8:46:59 AM]]>358077«suebe : 23 students are missing out on a music education due to their parents' ignorance. How sad.I'm pretty sure some of th...]]>2008-10-17T08:46:59+01:002008-10-17T08:46:59+01:00«suebe : 23 students are missing out on a music education due to their parents' ignorance. How sad.I'm pretty sure some of the kids had a say in it as well.. don't go blaming it all on the parents.. If I was in a music class at that age and my teacher came back as a man, and after watching south park which the youth of today does do.. I'd totally opt for gym class or music class.]]><![CDATA[smarty1052 @ 10/17/2008 8:44:50 AM]]>3580752008-10-17T08:44:50+01:002008-10-17T08:44:50+01:00<![CDATA[suebe @ 10/17/2008 8:40:08 AM]]>358072So far, 23 students from 15 different families have transferred their children out of the music class and into a physical education class.23 students are missing out on a music education due to their parents' ignorance. H...]]>2008-10-17T08:40:08+01:002008-10-17T08:40:08+01:00So far, 23 students from 15 different families have transferred their children out of the music class and into a physical education class.23 students are missing out on a music education due to their parents' ignorance. How sad.]]><![CDATA[drogue @ 10/17/2008 5:14:53 AM]]>358015«T1000 : I'm not saying he/she was, just that we don't know the whole story.
The parents may have been like, "This guy i...]]>2008-10-17T05:14:53+01:002008-10-17T05:14:53+01:00«T1000 : I'm not saying he/she was, just that we don't know the whole story.
The parents may have been like, "This guy is a condescending d bag every time I talk to him, and a terrible teacher, and this is the last straw, I'm moving my kid" and then the teacher cried foul.
The point I'm trying to make is that a person with a perfectly legitimate reason to perform a negative action against someone (firing, disciplinary actions) is often accused of being racist, sexist, etc., because the "victim" can't deal with the fact that they are disliked simply because they are a terrible person.
That's sounds bad I guess, but I hope you get what I'm trying to say.Did you actually read the story? How could this be a case of an employee claiming discrimination, seeing as how the teacher was never interviewed, named, or even quoted second-hand, and seemed to just want his privacy honored?
The story was about parents "crying foul" and pulling their kids out of his class because they weren't informed of the sex change. It was about the teacher's right to privacy, versus the parents' right to know about the teacher's change of sex.
I've seen people file shaky discrimination claims, in business, and the military, so I know what you're talking about, but it just doesn't make sense to try and wrap a hypothetical story around another and call it a "maybe," when the hypothetical story involves elements that just aren't in the real story.
If this were a false discrimination scenario, the teacher would have been suspended from teaching by the board, and would have spoken out, claiming discrimination, where the board and the parents spoke mainly of other, unrelated breaches of conduct. In this case, the teacher is never even named, the school board supports his privacy, and the parents are the ones specifically targeting the sex change as the problem.]]><![CDATA[T1000 @ 10/17/2008 3:06:03 AM]]>357981«chez:How is the teacher being an a*****e?I'm not saying he/she was, just that we don't know the whole story.
The parents may...]]>2008-10-17T03:06:03+01:002008-10-17T03:06:03+01:00«chez:How is the teacher being an a*****e?I'm not saying he/she was, just that we don't know the whole story.
The parents may have been like, "This guy is a condescending d bag every time I talk to him, and a terrible teacher, and this is the last straw, I'm moving my kid" and then the teacher cried foul.
The point I'm trying to make is that a person with a perfectly legitimate reason to perform a negative action against someone (firing, disciplinary actions) is often accused of being racist, sexist, etc., because the "victim" can't deal with the fact that they are disliked simply because they are a terrible person.
That's sounds bad I guess, but I hope you get what I'm trying to say.]]><![CDATA[Subobisis @ 10/17/2008 12:22:08 AM]]>357932«chez : How is the teacher being an a*****e?getting out of doing the dishes.]]>2008-10-17T00:22:08+01:002008-10-17T00:22:08+01:00«chez : How is the teacher being an a*****e?getting out of doing the dishes.]]><![CDATA[chez @ 10/16/2008 11:32:15 PM]]>357917«T1000 : IDK...It's easy to knee jerk and say that, but sometimes stuff like this is just the "last straw".
People ...]]>2008-10-16T23:32:15+01:002008-10-16T23:32:15+01:00«T1000 : IDK...It's easy to knee jerk and say that, but sometimes stuff like this is just the "last straw".
People in various organizations sometimes complain about being discriminated against, and make a big stink, but really, they're just huge a*****es who also happen to be minorities.How is the teacher being an a*****e?]]><![CDATA[T1000 @ 10/16/2008 11:15:36 PM]]>357912«chez : People are so f**king stupid.IDK...It's easy to knee jerk and say that, but sometimes stuff like this is just the &qu...]]>2008-10-16T23:15:36+01:002008-10-16T23:15:36+01:00«chez : People are so f**king stupid.IDK...It's easy to knee jerk and say that, but sometimes stuff like this is just the "last straw".
People in various organizations sometimes complain about being discriminated against, and make a big stink, but really, they're just huge a*****es who also happen to be minorities.]]><![CDATA[chez @ 10/16/2008 11:06:12 PM]]>3579072008-10-16T23:06:12+01:002008-10-16T23:06:12+01:00<![CDATA[roarkmeister @ 10/16/2008 10:28:25 PM]]>357892 Edit: I meant keep an eye out, not necessarily go see the movie.]]>2008-10-16T22:28:25+01:002008-10-16T22:28:25+01:00 Edit: I meant keep an eye out, not necessarily go see the movie.]]>