Paramedics are allowed to make such judgment calls in England!!? That is crazy. They are not doctors, they most certainly are not neurologists or specialist in traumatic brain injuries.

They should patch them up, give immediate emergency care and rush him to a hospital.

Is this an unusual and rare case? If a paramedic can make such life and death decisions I would assume that this sort of thing happens more often than not.

[yes, the parents should have taken the kid to a hospital themselves after the paramedics refused, but that is a different rant then why the paramedics decides who gets medical treatment and who doesn't]

The paramedics over here are really well trained and qualified, I don't know what it's like in America.

Our 6yo fell off his bunk bed and knocked himself out and was unresponsive and my wife was out with our car so I the paramedics. They actually had a doctor with them and checked him out and gave him the all clear. Maybe if they hadn't had a doctor there they would have taken him in as a precaution.

I wouldn't have taken him to the hospital after they said he was fine unless he had become ill later on.

I guess when a trained paramedic tells you your child is medically fine then you take their word for it. They normally will take a child in if there's any suspicion or doubt as to whether they are ok.

After this though I think if the same happened I'd take him in to hospital for a second check.

Yes, a paramedic is well trained here as well, but they are not doctors, nor do they have the time to verify that no hospital treatment is needed. Heck a doctor no matter how trained or how much of a brain injury specialist wouldn't be able to confirm that no hospital treatment was needed with a 5 minute examination.

Of course I am saying all of that with just gut feeling. Perhaps they can normally tell. I don't even know for sure that paramedics in the US are not allowed to make such calls. I would bet that they aren't but not positive.

Uh, as a paramedic myself, I must say that I don't ever look at someone and say they are ok.

Medicine is rarely textbook.

Here, in Ohio anyways, we have "No treat, no transport" forms. It must be signed by the party or parent refusing transport, which puts the responsibilty back on them. Some criteria we must call into med control and get a doctors permission to let the patient sign off.

However, I can overrule ANYONE who wants to decline treatment if I feel they must go. I have called police to assist me to get people in my ambulance.

Since I don't have MRI vision, I would be taking suspected head injuries to the hospital. For the time it takes you on scene to talk to someone and let everyone talk themselves out of something, they could be outta your hands already at the ER.

I'm not English, but reading this story, it's probably more like Holland then it is like the US.

That said, paramedics over here are allowed and qualified to decide if a person needs to go to hospital or not. They're not overqualified taxi-drivers.

Maybe this story isn't the best one to explain the benefits of the deal, but let's not forget that people die in hospitals as well.

If my country turns into a brainless "pick up and go to hospital" whenever someone calls an ambulance, I'm sure a lot more people would die.


Anyway, this is a big difference between our countries; one that made me drop my jaw when i first heard it, and one that is making your jaw drop similarly right now, I assume.

I'm not a medical expert but that child has a big head even in that picture.. I would've taken him for treatment..

Paramedics are very well trained in the US but the decision is still not theirs to make. They are trained to treat the wounds for transport, i.e. stabalize the patient, any decision not to transport is strictly on the individual, not even the doctors at the hospital afaik.

I would think no matter where you live, in the case of a child and particularly in the case of a child with a potential head injury, the protocol is to bring them to hospital where an evaluation can be done with proper equipment (MRI, PET, whatever) as those injuries often don't show obvious signs of severity and with a child who cannot not easily answer questions or might be frightened it should be imperative.

How would taking someone with an injury to the hospital instead of sending the home with 2 aspirin result in more deaths? Yes people die in the hospital, but someone who needs treatment and doesn't get it will die more often than someone who doesn't need treatment and is still looked at by a doctor with proper tools.

It isn't a "brainless" operation, nor are they "overqualified taxi drivers" and it is incredibly insulting for you to use those terms.

They are highly trained and give life-saving emergency treatment right then and there, hopefully getting them stabilized so that they can be taken to someone with the time and equipment to fully evaluate and treat the person.

Sending them home will have 2 results.

1) It will save the government money since they have socialized medicine. I would bet anything that is a strong factor in sending the kid home.

2) more deaths will happen in the long run. Not fewer.

There are many, many American EMTs and Paramedics who would take great offense to that comment. My husband would be one.

How incredibly rude.

As someone living in a place where I don't pay a cent for my health care, I highly disagree with this statement. Why would a paramedic decide to save the government money? They're government employees, and they know there's no need to penny-pinch on the government's dime; that's why we have government-provided health care in the first place.

Since when did it become insulting and rude to express an opinion about a profession?

It's not like she called them stupid, ridiculous a*****es, that might be offensive but...

Fair point, but there has to be a reason why they didn't have the kid seek help.

These paramedics without mri or other diagnostic equipment other than their hunch felt it was better for the for the kid to go home instead of being looked at just to be safe.

It seems to me that penny pinching is a reasonable guess. They are government employees and do as they are instructed to do. Perhaps they are told to not bring everyone with a bump on the head in order to save money. Perhaps that isn't the case. Perhaps they felt it was okay - if so they are still guilty of failing of negligence.

I will grant the possibility - okay even probability that cost had no factor, but it is by no means beyond the realm of possibility, it is more than a remote chance that had something to do with it.

I did actually give thought about my use of words before typing them down.

calling the US ambulance personnel "overqualified" however, was my way of trying not to be rude.

I don't know how calling people smarter then what they're asked to be in their profession could be rude.

That said, I think there's also a difference in lawsuits.....this story is extremely unfortunate, but in my country this wouldn't get the ambulance personnel more than a raised finger and a troubled mind. In the US, even though they might be as qualified for their jobs as they are over here, an unfortunate story like this could cost them a million dollar lawsuit.

Isn't that why they stabilize people over there to bring them to hospital, but just as well bring in people with a sore throat?

'The paramedics could have done tests at the hospital and his internal injuries would have shown up and he could have got treatment to save his life.


This seems odd.


Here in the US we have different levels of EMT training, and the prices vary wildly based on the level of training.

I should add as well that children are not treated medically as "little adults".

Children respond and compensate differently than adults do in traumas and such.

Where you would see obvious signs in an adult or an adult would be more apt to tell you things, a child's body can fool you and you should not always believe a child.

In shock a child can have a normal BP, where as if I had the same injury, my BP may be low and the bells and whistles would go off that I am *in* shock. Children will clip along and you have to look for subtle signs or you will miss what is coming.

And when the signs come and kids crash they do not come back. Their little bodies compensate for so long and they have no reserve left to fight.