Comments: 14 Score: [-] 346 [+].
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Posted: 1 year ago by ReBoot:
How horrible. Judging from his account, though, it sounds like he made the right decision. Better to save the one he could see, than to leave him and lose both.
Score: [-] 88 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by tragluk:
Here are the 'right decisions' in regard to this...
1. Don't take two eight year olds onto a river you don't know.
2. Don't take your story 'to the media' and relive the tragedy in front of the world... or if they came to you, politely decline to talk about it and let the poor child rest.
3. AND THIS IS BIG: Don't let the twin who lived read later about the fact that you 'still wonder if you made the right decision'
Score: [-] 54 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by doggylives:
« tragluk : Here are the 'right decisions' in regard to this...
1. Don't take two eight year olds onto a river you don't know.
2. Don't take your story 'to the media' and relive the tragedy in front of the world... or if they came to you, politely decline to talk about it and let the poor child rest.
3. AND THIS IS BIG: Don't let the twin who lived read later about the fact that you 'still wonder if you made the right decision' Here's a thought I just thought I'd toss out there.... Don't make judgements on situations that you've never been in.
He lost a child and sitting at your computer making helpful comments like, " Don't take two eight year olds onto a river you don't know.", is just asinine IMHO
This tragedy could have happened to anyone regardless of whether the "knew" the river or not, which the article doesn't specify.
They took a wrong turn and, as they tried to turn the canoe, a surge of water flipped it over.
It was an accident, ie, unplanned, unforeseen. There's nothing here to say the dad was at fault or remiss in his actions.
Walk a mile in someone's shoes before you pass judgement on them.
Score: [-] 86 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by aclister:
« tragluk : Here are the 'right decisions' in regard to this...
1. Don't take two eight year olds onto a river you don't know. The article clearly states that they took a wrong turn. The correct path may not have been dangerous
« tragluk : 2. Don't take your story 'to the media' and relive the tragedy in front of the world... or if they came to you, politely decline to talk about it and let the poor child rest. It was an inquest. Media go to inquests. He did not go to the media.
« tragluk : 3. AND THIS IS BIG: Don't let the twin who lived read later about the fact that you 'still wonder if you made the right decision' As a father of boy/girl twins myself, it is exactly how I would feel as well. I would see no problem in sharing that emotion with either child. I felt emotional reading the story, wondering how I could make a decision in a situation like that. He is, without doubt, feeling a lot of guilt over the decision that "no parent should have to make"
Score: [-] 55 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by tragluk:
« doggylives : Here's a thought I just thought I'd toss out there.... Don't make judgements on situations that you've never been in.
He lost a child and sitting at your computer making helpful comments like, " Don't take two eight year olds onto a river you don't know.", is just asinine IMHO
Walk a mile in someone's shoes before you pass judgement on them. Hey Pot, It's me kettle.. You're getting a tad dark there buddy.
You pass judgement on me for passing judgement on someone else?
I've canoed down rivers. I went down a glacier fed river in Alaska and there was a situation where three kids fell in. They were too close to the side (where it looks like you go faster) and when they came to a sweeper (a low overhanging branch on the river) the first one ducked left, then the guy in the back ducked left.
Two kids in a glacier fed river will last about a minute with the cold, which is made worse by the wind. But we were smarter. We had multiple canoes there, we had enough adults to handle the situation and we had a guide who knew the river we were on. Tragedy averted.
It's not a wise decision to go canoeing down a river you don't know. There are pools, eddies, turns, sandbars and any other hazards. You take someone who Has been on the river before. And if you DO want to explore the last thing you want to do is take two other people (kids) who won't be able to handle the river you're on.
He was WRONG.
As to his decision, I don't judge him for saving the kid he did. If anything I'd agree that you save the kid who is closest instead of searching for the one you don't know where he is. It's the 'after the fact' moments which I judge.
You think he's RIGHT to say in public that "I'm not sure I made the right decision?" How is the other kid going to feel when he reads THAT someday?
"Dad saved me, and he wasn't sure he should have?"
How about a little compassion for the kid who lived and probably has guilt over it to begin with?
The better decision is to grieve the tragedy and not go public with the story. Some matters are just private and should not become public gossip.
Or do you agree with him that he should go to the newspapers and talk about how he might have saved the wrong kid after risking both their lives by putting them into a situation he couldn't control?
Score: [-] 67 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by doggylives:
Where did it say he didn't "know" the river?! I take it you're presuming this as they were on holiday. Maybe he'd been there before.
So you've been in this situation have you? Had to choose between your children?
"I will never know if I made the right decision. Should I go for the one I can see and hope that later I can find the one I can't see? In the end I went for the one I could see."
He's not saying that he will always wonder if he chose the right child he said he will always wonder if he made the right choice in terms of being able to save both children. ie, if he'd done things differently maybe he could have saved both.
I just don't see the need to rip into a guy who's been through trauma and lost a child.
Score: [-] 22 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by aclister:
« tragluk : Hey Pot, It's me kettle.. You're getting a tad dark there buddy.
You pass judgement on me for passing judgement on someone else? I see no problem with passing judgement on an incorrect judgement and agree with doggylives but please keep it up as the entertainment value is high.
« tragluk : He was WRONG. Whoah! There are more accidents on the road than in canoes. There are other cars, potholes, pedestrians, bicycles, trucks and any other hazards. If the story was about a car accident, I don't think you'd be making the same comments. Would a father be wrong to save one twin from the burning wreck of a car?
Perspective, please.
Score: [-] 43 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by tragluk:
Looking back over this I see that I'm in a losing battle in 'Plime'.
I've got a guy with a 7 rating and a guy with a 29 rating and I've got -36 on the comment I made because they disagree with it. Whatever. At least I'm not upvoting myself to inflate my own ranking. And yes aclister, we can see when you upvote your own comment.
As to the story, Did you watch the video with the article?
The inquest is not open to the public. There are no cameras inside. His comments made in there are made for the inquest itself. They want to know what happened, how it happened, and they ruled it was simply Death by Misadventure. In any other story, that is about a paragraph or two worth of copy.
Not with this father. His comments about his choice made this a BIG story. It has depth, emotion, it tugs at the heartstrings, and as a Television Presenter he knows that.
He doesn't own a canoe, he rented one. They didn't tell him about the dangers of the river. They weren't licensed (they don't currently need a license to rent canoes). They gave him lifejackets, told him how to call for help and put him into the river.
It is a tragedy, and it's not that I don't feel bad for the father and twin. It's just that I don't agree with any parent who takes their tragedy and displays it before the world.
I'm not talking about the inquest. I'm talking about the throng of cameras that surrounded him while he was making the comments in the Video linked in that article. He's not quiety mourning his loss, he's talking about it to a group of reporters. He's prepared statements, he's making speeches, and not only is the world watching, but so is his other kid. You know, the one he saved as he made a choice.
You want me to have compassion for the father, I want the father to have compassion for his kid. Accidents happen, but had he taken two kids hanggliding and then one of them fell, you'd call him stupid for going hanggliding. In this case he went into a situation he didn't know, without the experience to control it, and he took his kids with him.
I'll make this my final comment on the subject and take my licks from the two of you. I don't agree with you, but I won't let you downvote me anymore for my opinions.
Good day!
Score: [-] 49 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by doggylives:
Quit whining about downvotes.
I didn't downvote because you expressed an opinion different to mine I downvoted because to say the things you have about a grieving father is asshatery IMO.
People give interview after things like this happen all the time. Are you trying to imply that he's being some kind of media whore?
Your comment above hasn't addressed any of the points I raised but if you want to cut and run on a discussion then so be it.
*editz* I've removed my downvote in the hope you'll stop sulking and have an adult discussion
Score: [-] -38 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by arsphidius:
« tragluk : Looking back over this I see that I'm in a losing battle in 'Plime'.
I've got a guy with a 7 rating and a guy with a 29 rating and I've got -36 on the comment I made because they disagree with it. Whatever. At least I'm not upvoting myself to inflate my own ranking. And yes aclister, we can see when you upvote your own comment.
You know, I linked to an article I though was interesting, only to get downvoted by someone with a 39 rating because they didn't think it was interesting enough, and called it "local news".
Score: [-] 29 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by Nunkii:
Its horrific either way you look at it. But I do agree with Targluk. if you don't know a river, you do not bring children along, especially if you don't know what you're doing.
Score: [-] 41 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by bingo:
Sorry doggy, but I agree with him too.
I agree, it was just a tragic accident, but the dad is not the hero here.
Score: [-] 28 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by doggylives:
« bingo : Sorry doggy, but I agree with him too.
I agree, it was just a tragic accident, but the dad is not the hero here. Errrr, no need to apologize. I honestly don't really care whether you agree or not :)
To sit at your computer in your warm, cozy house and make judgements on a man who's just lost a child in a tragic accident is, well, less than admirable, it's pretty asinine. IMO
Score: [-] 0 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by bingo:
« doggylives : Errrr, no need to apologize. I honestly don't really care whether you agree or not :) Just being polite, parents taught me manners, what can I say?
Score: [-] 12 [+].
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