Comments: 26 Score: [-] 353 [+].
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Posted: 1 year ago by shep182:
Wow... thats a big one... I'm sure there will be no backlash at all! :P
Score: [-] 27 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by JoshSF49:
This is crap.
Students from an accredited Christian High School can no longer compete with secular high school students because the UC system doesn't accept some of the classes.
This is a public institution, and I feel that this judge is incredibly incorrect in his decision.
Score: [-] -8 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by bunnysutra:
"UC's review committees cited legitimate reasons for rejecting the texts - not because they contained religious viewpoints, but because they omitted important topics in science and history and failed to teach critical thinking."
That does actually sound like a valid argument. I wouldn't expect my photography class to count toward my accounting degree...
in order for classes to be transferred they are reviewed to see if the curriculum matches the school's requirements
Score: [-] 194 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by JoshSF49:
« bunnysutra : "UC's review committees cited legitimate reasons for rejecting the texts - not because they contained religious viewpoints, but because they omitted important topics in science and history and failed to teach critical thinking."
That does actually sound like a valid argument. I wouldn't expect my photography class to count toward my accounting degree...
in order for classes to be transferred they are reviewed to see if the curriculum matches the school's requirements From what I understand though, its an admissions thing, where your biology and chemistry classes may not count towards admission into the university. I don't think it has anything to do with getting the degree.
Score: [-] -1 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by bunnysutra:
« JoshSF49 : From what I understand though, its an admissions thing, where your biology and chemistry classes may not count towards admission into the university. I don't think it has anything to do with getting the degree. Well I know that my SO's Highschool classes brought him in as nearly a Jr in college because it was an advance international highschool -
If the students didn't actually get the benefit of certain aspects that UC requires of their students, that's actually unfair for them, I think. If your anticipated college expects you to know the history or science behind evolution and you have no clue... eee.
Score: [-] 48 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by Boomshank:
« JoshSF49 : This is crap.
Students from an accredited Christian High School can no longer compete with secular high school students because the UC system doesn't accept some of the classes.
This is a public institution, and I feel that this judge is incredibly incorrect in his decision. Did you read the article?
I think the judge was bang-on.
This isn't just a case of Christian High Schools vs. Secular High Schools, it's a case of certain schools teaching a VERY narrow point of view that differs from the WIDELY accepted curriculum and saying that the WIDELY accepted viewpoint is just wrong.
Quote: "not because they contained religious viewpoints, but because they omitted important topics in science and history and failed to teach critical thinking."
Any school that teaches,"if (scientific) conclusions contradict the Word of God, the conclusions are wrong," should perhaps open their own university so they can continue the cycle of bizarre indoctrination.
Score: [-] 196 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by Boomshank:
« JoshSF49 : From what I understand though, its an admissions thing, where your biology and chemistry classes may not count towards admission into the university. I don't think it has anything to do with getting the degree. Exactly.
All they seem to be doing is saying certain credits don't count because they don't fit the same criteria that the rest of society uses.
Sounds fair to me.
I can't use a cooking credit as a biology credit, even though they're kind of related in a vague way.
The judge isn't saying that Christian High Schools are no good, he's basically saying that the courses at these particular schools are so "out there" that they don't match the criteria for a credit course.
Score: [-] 173 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by chinook:
« JoshSF49 : This is crap.
Students from an accredited Christian High School can no longer compete with secular high school students because the UC system doesn't accept some of the classes.
This is a public institution, and I feel that this judge is incredibly incorrect in his decision. I think the judge is incredibly correct.
Do you really think students from a highly religious school could fairly compete with students from a secular high school, particularly when it comes to science and critical thinking, in the first place? Students graduating from a school that won't teach something as basic as evolution or genetics just aren't on the same academic level as students who have learned this.
I'm curious as to how a student who has studied from the "Chemistry for Christians" textbook would fare compared to a student who has studied from a normal, real textbook on a typical first year university chemistry or bio exam.... in my own personal experience, the students I met in university in these situations struggled or just dropped the class (I guess intro biology goes against god's word..?).
I'd almost go so far as to say that the judge is almost doing a favour for students from these Christian schools by saying "watch the classes you take now, as some of these aren't accepted by most academics and won't help you in the future."
Score: [-] 147 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by melgesevad:
My cross country team cleaned out an old parochial school once and I peaked at their science textbooks. What those kids were learning was not science.
The ruling makes sense.
Score: [-] 142 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by xenity7:
This is so awesome.
Score: [-] 19 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by hypersapien:
It's very simple. If they haven't been taught the subject, then they shouldn't get the course credit.
Students that have been taught that creationism is true and evolution is false have not been taught the subject.
Score: [-] 66 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by makri:
Hooray for intelligent rulings. For once.
If I made up my own religion and taught random, made up facts from aliens creating the earth in 1930s to there being only 4 substances; air, water, rock and lard, how exactly would that prepare me for a regular university?
Score: [-] 51 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by JoshSF49:
« chinook : I think the judge is incredibly correct.
Do you really think students from a highly religious school could fairly compete with students from a secular high school, particularly when it comes to science and critical thinking, in the first place? Students graduating from a school that won't teach something as basic as evolution or genetics just aren't on the same academic level as students who have learned this. I disagree. I come from a Christian High School that taught that Evolution as a flawed theory. I can certainly hold my own in an academic argument, and consistently scored as one of the highest test takers in the country. So, yes, I believe that students from a religious high school can compete with students from a secular high school. In fact, most of my classmates scored much higher than the average student in the country.
That being said, I still learned Evolution in high school; I was still taught genetics. The only difference is that I was taught that Evolution was incorrect. If the students are being taught the information, does it matter if they're taught that it's wrong?
I'm curious as to how a student who has studied from the "Chemistry for Christians" textbook would fare compared to a student who has studied from a normal, real textbook on a typical first year university chemistry or bio exam.... in my own personal experience, the students I met in university in these situations struggled or just dropped the class (I guess intro biology goes against god's word..?).
According to the link, "Chemistry for Christians" is fine.
I'd almost go so far as to say that the judge is almost doing a favour for students from these Christian schools by saying "watch the classes you take now, as some of these aren't accepted by most academics and won't help you in the future."
But the point is that an accredited Christian high school should receive credit just as much as a secular high school for the same classes. Did they teach the exact same information? No, but it is still a biology/chemistry/etc. course and should be counted as that, considering it doesn't even count for credit, just for acceptance
Score: [-] -13 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by makri:
« JoshSF49 : But the point is that an accredited Christian high school should receive credit just as much as a secular high school for the same classes. This only applies if the information is exactly the same, with the only difference being claim that it's incorrect. If they're not the same, your point is moot.
Score: [-] 16 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by JoshSF49:
« makri : This only applies if the information is exactly the same, with the only difference being claim that it's incorrect. If they're not the same, your point is moot. I know secular schools that don't teach the exact same information between schools, and I even know that between different classes they don't teach the exact same information.
The point is that UC is trying to indirectly force christian high schools to each evolution as fact.
Score: [-] -39 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by T1000:
The smartest kids I know were all home schooled in Christian homes.
They don't necessarily believe that evolution is true, but they could tell you everything about it, backwards and forwards, along with the other side of the argument. In fact, it would be a great to see them on this board, as intelligent contributors.
Seriously, these guys all got ridiculously high SAT scores, and are all about to either enter or graduate from very good (state) colleges.
Score: [-] 22 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by makri:
« JoshSF49:The point is that UC is trying to indirectly force christian high schools to each evolution as fact. If the curriculum in a Christian High School doesn't give sufficient focus on things like evolutionary theory, then it shouldn't be credited. Focusing on things like ID doesn't prepare you for further education.
I assume that in this case the treatment they gave to science wasn't sufficient.
Suppressing critical thinking and teaching kids to trust Bible over science is not doing these kids any favours.
I've never seen a single person who didn't believe in evolution while having even the most basic understanding of what it means.
Score: [-] 39 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by chinook:
« JoshSF49 : I disagree. I come from a Christian High School that taught that Evolution as a flawed theory. Did they also teach gravity as a flawed theory? I mean, it's only a theory, after all.
« JoshSF49 :I can certainly hold my own in an academic argument, and consistently scored as one of the highest test takers in the country. So, yes, I believe that students from a religious high school can compete with students from a secular high school. In fact, most of my classmates scored much higher than the average student in the country. Good for you. At my university, it was the opposite. Then again, what do I know..? It's just one of the top universities in my country....
« JoshSF49 :That being said, I still learned Evolution in high school; I was still taught genetics. The only difference is that I was taught that Evolution was incorrect. If the students are being taught the information, does it matter if they're taught that it's wrong?
According to the link, "Chemistry for Christians" is fine.
But the point is that an accredited Christian high school should receive credit just as much as a secular high school for the same classes. Did they teach the exact same information? No, but it is still a biology/chemistry/etc. course and should be counted as that, considering it doesn't even count for credit, just for acceptance Think about how ridiculous this sounds for a moment. If a religious school taught that some theories were false (I'm going to use good ol' gravity again), do you really think these students deserve to get the same course credit as those who were actually taught science? Even if they know all about it but were so convinced it was false (because belief in gravity would anger their god), how do feel about these people becoming teachers or engineers or doctors?
Just because you don't believe in evolution or *insert any other science here* doesn't mean that we (the critical thinkers here on earth) should accept your fairy tales as part of a good education.
Score: [-] 20 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by JoshSF49:
« chinook:Did they also teach gravity as a flawed theory? I mean, it's only a theory, after all. A.) Gravity is a scientific law, and B.) gravity can be unequivocally proven.
Good for you. At my university, it was the opposite. Then again, what do I know..? It's just one of the top universities in my country....
Think about how ridiculous this sounds for a moment. If a religious school taught that some theories were false (I'm going to use good ol' gravity again), do you really think these students deserve to get the same course credit as those who were actually taught science? Even if they know all about it but were so convinced it was false (because belief in gravity would anger their god), how do feel about these people becoming teachers or engineers or doctors?
To become teachers/engineers/doctors, they must go through the university system anyway so it doesn't matter. We're not talking degrees here, we're talking acceptance into a school that will teach what they want to teach.
Just because you don't believe in evolution or *insert any other science here* doesn't mean that we (the critical thinkers here on earth) should accept your fairy tales as part of a good education.
Nor should it. I don't believe teaching Evolution should be considered "good education" either, considering the fact that it, and I have stated this many, many times, hasn't even been proven to have occurred.