Obama, the Candidate of Shadows : RSS 0.91http://www.plime.com/politics/en-usObama, the Candidate of Shadows : RSS 0.91http://www.plime.com/politics/<![CDATA[Obama, the Candidate of Shadows]]>http://www.plime.com/politics/l/60215/1/
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<![CDATA[DerAlt @ 5/1/2008 5:01:45 PM]]>http://www.plime.com/politics/l/60215/1/rss0_91.rss#q8« 2manyusernames:You really have me confused here.
I meant nothing personal but I can see that you could feel that way. Sorry if I was too snarky.

I think I have to become less involved here because I can not be casual about what's happened to our country and what may be happening again.

I've been an observer of our political process for many years. I actually wore a button once that said "NO THIRD TERM." Obviously that was FDR and I was a kid then that didn't know what the implications were. But I have been interested, very rarely involved directly, and sadly have seen some promising candidates go down the tubes for nothing more that being less attractive.

Elections have always been tough and both parties look for the "hook" that will sway people to their party. Unfortunately I believe the majority of our electorate is not particularly bright and in some cases it didn't take much of a hook.

However, that being said, the election, starting with Bush 2 was nothing less than a corrupt process that was particularly evident in Florida with the Fl Atty General being the head of the Bush election team. She made decisions that should have made everyone's hair stand up pertaining to the counting and verification of ballots and exclusion of "felons" from voting. In Fl that amounts to excluding minorities, except Cubans who are largely registered Republican down here. Then of course there was the Supreme court that should never have been involved.

I'm not going to try and enumerate every single point, I can't type that well and as I said it's just too much work to make sure the facts are correct. But basically I'm saying that we have b*****dized the election process where innuendo has replaced facts and if you can maintain arms length, as per the Swift Boaters, any lies can be used. I feel this kind of bised blog has no real place on a news site like Plime.

Yes, as you said, they are a dime a dozen on the net and no matter what opinion they pander to they are essentially junk. We can load Plime up with 10 different takes on every issue...if we don't care about at least a small attempt at fact.

I think we're left with 3 candidates that are not the best for the job. Thanks to the kind of media coverage and campaign tactics that are in vogue today. In addition we may be choosing the worst of them due to the same focus on all the opinion, hate, misinformation that seems to play best on the internet, and professional media.

Gah!]]><![CDATA[2manyusernames @ 5/1/2008 12:59:05 PM]]>http://www.plime.com/politics/l/60215/1/rss0_91.rss#q7« DerAlt : Oh lord,

You are really good at all the spin stuff, I'll admit that right off.

The game play with words is a bit silly. Obama may have quoted someone saying his name sounds Muslim...that does not mean he's the author which was implied in your first post.

Because other bloggers have a similar axe to grind does not give this kind of garbage any validity.

This is way too much work.

My guess is that, judging by the relatively few upvotes the post received, most of the Plimers know crap when they see it, and they really don't need my help in recognizing it.You really have me confused here.
Spin??? Where did I make any sort of spin sir? I am trying to unspin it.

Game play with words? How am I playing with words. I quoted the entire quote exactly as written. How is that a game?

In my opinion you appeared to have gotten upset because you thought the blogger was saying his name sounded muslim. I merely showed you the entire quote showing it was Obama complaining about his critics and how they have no basis for their dislike of him.

This is basically what you are saying about a lack of facts.

I didn't say he was the author of the piece, I said the quote was from him. Period. End of sentence. Are we in agreement there? Do you agree that Obama made that quote, giving examples of the crap his critics said? That some were talking from prejudice? That the blogger was not saying his name sounded Muslim?

No spin, just pointing out that the quote was proving your point, but you looked at it as part of the problem.




This garbage? Are you talking about the belief that Obamas parting away from Wright is done for political reason only and not his true feelings?

If so, as I said, it is far more than bloggers. As I said, there are many people, not just bloggers, including professional political analysts and Wright himself who have made the same theory. Are they all hate-filled? Do they all have an axe to grind?


There is also a theory put forth by bloggers, professional political analysts, and even Plimates that Wright's latest speech was designed to bring Obama down. Some have even posited that perhaps Wright was paid to do so by the Clintons.

Are those theorist also hate-filled or prejudiced? Could that theory be just a cynical one as well?

Does either theory have any validity? We will never know. Doesn't make either one "garbage", no more than the other equally biased theories put forth about other people, causes, practices, beliefs, etc here on plime.

Please tell me how my pointing out that this theory is extremely common is "spin". Is it that I said it wasn't a theory based on hate, but one of cynicism that made you think I was spinning it or I was smearing someone??

I didn't even say whether I believed either theory or that he meant what he said. I was just pointing out that this particular column, this particular theory did not have its basis in hate or prejudice. That's is all I was trying to do.

It didn't get many upvotes because
1. It got a number of downvotes from people
and
2. 1thirteen3 gets very few upvotes when it comes to his Obama posts because many of them are as you thought this one was, just hot air with no substance or tying to find silly things to be upset about
3. His description had nothing to do with the article and just didn't sound interesting.

Going by upvotes is hardly an indicator of the quality of the posts/comments. It should be, but there are too many other factors people use to vote to make it so.


You may feel this is way too much work, but I have too much respect for you to have you thinking I am spinning something or I am making garbage or smearing statements. I am trying to understand where you are coming from and for you to understand what I am saying.]]><![CDATA[DerAlt @ 5/1/2008 12:33:55 PM]]>http://www.plime.com/politics/l/60215/1/rss0_91.rss#q6
You are really good at all the spin stuff, I'll admit that right off.

The game play with words is a bit silly. Obama may have quoted someone saying his name sounds Muslim...that does not mean he's the author which was implied in your first post.

Because other bloggers have a similar axe to grind does not give this kind of garbage any validity.

This is way too much work.

My guess is that, judging by the relatively few upvotes the post received, most of the Plimers know crap when they see it, and they really don't need my help in recognizing it.]]><![CDATA[2manyusernames @ 5/1/2008 12:18:07 PM]]>http://www.plime.com/politics/l/60215/1/rss0_91.rss#q5« DerAlt : The blog says the pastor said his name sounds Muslim, not Obabma. Quote from first paragraph:

His pastor once said something. "He's got a funny name, sounds Muslim."You only quoted part of the quote and moved quotation marks.

Here it is in its entirety:
"They say: We don't know enough about him. His pastor once said something. He's got a funny name, sounds Muslim."

The quote was from Obama commenting on his critics. He was listing some of the things that his critics say such as
1. "We don't know enough about him"
2. "His pastor once said something"
3. "He's got a funny name, sounds Muslim"


« DerAlt
That has only been theorized by hate filled and factless bloggers. Repeating it doesn't give it veracity. Your smear by association here is cheap.
MY smear??? I'm not smearing anyone.

« DerAlt
Of course he is trying to get elected. Funny there's a lack of comparason with Mr McCain when he discusses "change of heart." He's flip flopped on quite a few important issues over the past 4 or 5 years.

Um, that's what I said, it's an opinion piece but also one that exudes hate based on nothing more than the bloggers predudices.

Predudice= hate without reason.

Anyone who writes with this much baseless venom
should focus on his own "true meanings and motives."

Blogs like this, dripping hate, are available for all the candidates. Is that what you are encouraging we post? There are many of them out there, of all stripes and colors.

13 has established his mindless hate of Obama in many other threads and posts. My issue here is not to start a stupid posting war with blogs like this that do nothing except stir up discussions based on nothing more than personal feelings.

Articles concerning the candidates that are fact based would help determine who is best fitted for the job. This kind of garbage is just a mindless smear job. Lets keep this stuff off Plime.
That same theory has been put forth by more than just bloggers. It has been put forth by many people from bloggers, to joe-in-the-street, to commentators, to on-air personalities, to political analysts, and as I mentioned, even Wright himself implied that Obama was saying what he had to in order to get elected.

Same as every other politician out there. McCain has gotten a lot of grief over his flip-flopping. He has gotten a lot of grief from the same sources. Republicans more than any others have given grief about such things.

McCain isn't getting as much attention right now because currently he has no one opposing him. There is little news there. When it become McCain vs the democrat winner, you're likely to see a difference.

The media is ignoring much of what McCain says and does right now which is not good, but it is understandable why they are ignoring him - for now.

All I am saying is that there is no venom in this column. It is old news that has been reported by dozens and dozens of people. It isn't based on hate or prejudice. You might say it is based on cynicism. I didn't see one single example of venom, hate, or prejudice. I'll grant I may have overlooked it or didn't read between the lines.

Do all those who imagine he is saying what he has to, not what he feels doing so only out of hate and prejudice? I think not.

Where is the hate in saying Obama didn't turn away from the Pastor for 20+ years and only when it was political expedient to completely break away did he do so. May be true, may not be true. May have a bearing on him as a man and a politician, it may not have a bearing. In any case there is no "venom" here.

Yes, 1thirteen3 does have a huge bias. Yes, he posts articles that fit his bias. He is hardly the only one on Plime to do so. He is far from the only one on Plime to post dozens of opinion piece articles or articles with an obvious bias to it.

Are most of the Obama pieces just opinions and short of "facts". Yes they are, that is a fault of the media and Obama himself. There aren't many "facts" to use in articles. This is true for pro-Obama pieces as well that talk about his plans for "hope" and "change" 2 rather vague and meaningless words when it comes to politicians.]]><![CDATA[DerAlt @ 5/1/2008 8:54:14 AM]]>http://www.plime.com/politics/l/60215/1/rss0_91.rss#q4« 2manyusernames:Perhaps I read it wrong (it isn't written clearly) but it appears that "his name sounds Muslim" is a quote from Obama, talking about some of the silly crap that is laid on him.

The blog isn't saying anything about his name or his religion.The blog says the pastor said his name sounds Muslim, not Obabma. Quote from first paragraph:

His pastor once said something. "He's got a funny name, sounds Muslim."


It is just the same stuff that has already been posted and theorized by many sources.

Namely that his outright denouncing of Wright after his latest hate-filled, racist, insane, self-serving, please-give-me-that-jesse-jackson-al-sharpton-money statements is more political than heartfelt.
That has only been theorized by hate filled and factless bloggers. Repeating it doesn't give it veracity. Your smear by association here is cheap.

The blogger states he doesn't believe that Obama is all of a sudden having some change of heart. That instead he is doing exactly what Wright said he was doing, saying what he had to in order to get elected.
Of course he is trying to get elected. Funny there's a lack of comparason with Mr McCain when he discusses "change of heart." He's flip flopped on quite a few important issues over the past 4 or 5 years.

So there are no "facts" because it is an opinion piece, a piece imagining what Obama's motives and his true feelings are.
Um, that's what I said, it's an opinion piece but also one that exudes hate based on nothing more than the bloggers predudices.

Predudice= hate without reason.

Anyone who writes with this much baseless venom
should focus on his own "true meanings and motives."

Blogs like this, dripping hate, are available for all the candidates. Is that what you are encouraging we post? There are many of them out there, of all stripes and colors.

13 has established his mindless hate of Obama in many other threads and posts. My issue here is not to start a stupid posting war with blogs like this that do nothing except stir up discussions based on nothing more than personal feelings.

Articles concerning the candidates that are fact based would help determine who is best fitted for the job. This kind of garbage is just a mindless smear job. Lets keep this stuff off Plime.]]><![CDATA[2manyusernames @ 5/1/2008 12:00:32 AM]]>http://www.plime.com/politics/l/60215/1/rss0_91.rss#q3« DerAlt : Nothing like a blog that's full of facts.

Exactly the same kind of Bu**S**t that we got from the swift boaters.

His name sounds Muslim.

Jesus.Perhaps I read it wrong (it isn't written clearly) but it appears that "his name sounds Muslim" is a quote from Obama, talking about some of the silly crap that is laid on him.

The blog isn't saying anything about his name or his religion.

It is just the same stuff that has already been posted and theorized by many sources.

Namely that his outright denouncing of Wright after his latest hate-filled, racist, insane, self-serving, please-give-me-that-jesse-jackson-al-sharpton-money statements is more political than heartfelt.

The blogger states he doesn't believe that Obama is all of a sudden having some change of heart. That instead he is doing exactly what Wright said he was doing, saying what he had to in order to get elected.

So there are no "facts" because it is an opinion piece, a piece imagining what Obama's motives and his true feelings are.]]><![CDATA[DerAlt @ 4/30/2008 9:10:39 PM]]>http://www.plime.com/politics/l/60215/1/rss0_91.rss#q2
Exactly the same kind of Bu**S**t that we got from the swift boaters.

His name sounds Muslim.

Jesus.]]>