Bush claims executive privilege on CIA leak : RSS 2.0

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<![CDATA[ImNotBlue @ 7/21/2008 1:17:53 PM]]>« siennablue : The reason we are in Iraq in the first place is because Saadam started using the Euro as his standard of payment. This meant we had to buy Euros before buying oil from Iraq. Iran is proposing the exact same thing with the Euros, and if they get away with it, all the middle east countries (including Saudi Arabia) will follow suit and the dollar will virtually disappear... so it is about oil & it's not.Actually, I don't believe that we ever got our oil from Iraq... not even before the war. I think they were on our "enemies" list, so we weren't allowed to get anything from there.

Smaller government is not a popular subject with most people, because we have become lazy & want everything done for us.

Agreed. 1000 times, agreed.]]>http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q21http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q21politics <![CDATA[siennablue @ 7/17/2008 4:24:18 PM]]>« ImNotBlue : Does that mean that Obama's previous drug use also disqualifies him?No, use and abuse are totally different. Not that I am voting for Obama, I am voting for neither him nor McCain.

This is a tough issue for me. I am a straight arrow when it comes to this stuff. Heck, I didn't drink until I was 21 (seriously... no particular reason, but after having people at college and elsewhere try to get me to drink, it became something a personal challenge, not to bow to their pressure)... and I've never smoked, snorted, or injected anything illegal (not even so much as a cigarette or cigar). In college, I was an RA... and was known for being the jerk RA, because I was willing to enforce the policy, dump alcohol down the drain, and call campus safety the moment I smelled something funny.

OK, I can respect rebellious behavior 24-7, as long as there is reasoning & self discipline.

So it's tough for me. But, as long as someone has a prove past, where they have made amends(ie: they've been sober for a long while), and they feel regret for what they've done... I'm not so sure that should disqualify them. After all, this is America... and what is more American than an addict cleaning up his/her ways, getting a second chance, and doing something positive with their life?

I can't quite agree that having everything in life given to you qualifies as doing something positive with your life.

Well, I don't know how true that really is. I personally don't buy the whole "war for oil" line... and don't see any opposition candidates pushing for "smaller government."

The reason we are in Iraq in the first place is because Saadam started using the Euro as his standard of payment. This meant we had to buy Euros before buying oil from Iraq. Iran is proposing the exact same thing with the Euros, and if they get away with it, all the middle east countries (including Saudi Arabia) will follow suit and the dollar will virtually disappear... so it is about oil & it's not.

Smaller government is not a popular subject with most people, because we have become lazy & want everything done for us.]]>http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q20http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q20politics <![CDATA[fentwin @ 7/17/2008 4:06:48 PM]]>http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q19http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q19politics <![CDATA[ImNotBlue @ 7/17/2008 3:40:48 PM]]>« shep182 : I can see that... if I were only touting "Bush sucks" at every turn without any kind of reference... this would be the "hating" you refer to ... However... pointing out the poor dealings, bad decisions and outright lies of this administration doesn't fall under that description... as far as a solution is concerned... Nanci Pelosi in all her wig-wearing wisdom took that off the table... no impeachment... besides... the republicans in the house/senate will make sure that doesnt happen anyway... most ... not because they dont AGREE that it should be done, but because he's a fellow Republican and they cant have those.... oh .. whats the catch phrase of the hour... "cool-aid drinking democrats" ganging up on one of our their own...Now this really upsets me. Especially from you, Shep.

It's KOOL-AID, not "cool-aid." BOO! Boo, on you! ;)

The evedence against this administration is incontrovertable... and it just keeps coming... and so long as it keeps coming, I will keep posting it...

Well, that's okay... just so long as it's real evidence, and not opinion presented as evidence.

You say you are sick of the spin and hype against this administration and we should stick to the truth.. which is "Bad enough"... I'm really interested in what you mean by "the truth" if what we have been discussing isn't it... I dont say this as argumenative statement, I'm really, honestly intrigued on any faults you would point out ... perhaps they may help my perspective...

Well, I'll give you an example. Take the lead-up to Iraq. The folks on the left cry, "He lied!" Because that makes better bumper stickers, and gets the folks more riled up. "He lied," is more anger inducing, than "We all interpreted the information incorrectly!"

But the second one is closer to the truth. The information was out there... most in the world community (and according to recent reports, even those in Saddam's own army), thought they had WMD's. There are speeches ranging back to the Clinton administration, talking about Saddam possessing these weapons... so to now claim that Bush somehow lied, is false. Everyone had the same information, everyone was allowed to look it over and do their own research. "He lied" is their way of trying to escape responsibility, and confuse the public for their own political gain.

The argument, "Bush did not have a solid plan for the reconstruction of Iraq," however, is perfectly legitimate, and one can make a strong case for the truth of that.

It reminds me of something I read recently about media bias. "No matter how bad a problem really is, advocates think they need to portray it as worse. This is standard operating procedure with lobbies. Pump up the number of victims and we stand a better chance of getting more sympathy and support—more money—for our cause, is what they correctly think." (Bernard Goldberg, "BIAS") People exaggerate the claims, to make it more catch-phrase friendly, and to keep their supporters extra angry.

OH... an just for the record... what makes me so great is i'm an honest upstanding member of my community... I will always lend a helping hand, without expecting anything in return... I do not lie, cheat or steal for personal gain... I am far from perfect, but if i DO make a mistake, I will be the first to admit it and do my best to make amends... that... and I mix a KILLER martini...

I wish I could mix a good martini. My drink mixing skills are terrible. I usually make them too strong, and then wake up the next morning naked in bed. Which, while sexy, is not always what I'm hoping for.

(And I didn't mean "you" personally... but the royal "you.")]]>http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q18http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q18politics <![CDATA[ImNotBlue @ 7/17/2008 3:24:25 PM]]>« siennablue : I can't for the life of me think what you could like about him, from what you know about him.Again, don't necessarily like the guy. Never said I did. I just don't hate him. There's a difference! To me "hating" means I believe there is nothing he has done, will do, or can do right. That's too much of a blanket statement for me.

We do know that he was irresponsible enough to have been accused of being a drug and alcohol abuser, and Bush is the only major presidential candidate who has not answered the question about whether he has ever used cocaine. What he did say was "I've told the people of this country that, over 20 years ago, I made some mistakes when I was younger. I've learned from those mistakes" ... While this understandable among the general population, I would not consider it among my list of things that qualify him to be a Governor, and should certainly disqualify him to be president of the U.S.

Does that mean that Obama's previous drug use also disqualifies him?

This is a tough issue for me. I am a straight arrow when it comes to this stuff. Heck, I didn't drink until I was 21 (seriously... no particular reason, but after having people at college and elsewhere try to get me to drink, it became something a personal challenge, not to bow to their pressure)... and I've never smoked, snorted, or injected anything illegal (not even so much as a cigarette or cigar). In college, I was an RA... and was known for being the jerk RA, because I was willing to enforce the policy, dump alcohol down the drain, and call campus safety the moment I smelled something funny.

So it's tough for me. But, as long as someone has a prove past, where they have made amends(ie: they've been sober for a long while), and they feel regret for what they've done... I'm not so sure that should disqualify them. After all, this is America... and what is more American than an addict cleaning up his/her ways, getting a second chance, and doing something positive with their life?

Another thing we know about him is, he''s "smart mouth", just like McCain has been for his entire life ... the class-clown, the wisecracker, the backsliding smart ass who declared "Mission Accomplished" over 5 years ago, heralded by a giant banner strung across the deck of the USS Abraham Lincoln. After shifting explanations, the White House eventually said the "Mission Accomplished" phrase referred to the carrier's crew completing their 10-month mission, not the military completing its mission in Iraq.

It's hard to call Bush a "smart mouth," when he consistently speaks more like "Mush Mouth." I have no problem with the wisecracking... just so long as he doesn't cause serious damage with it.

As for the "Mission Accomplished," that was undeniable a blunder. It can be spun one way or another to defend him, but IMO, that's weak. The biggest flaw of this war (and his eventual legacy) is poor planning for the reconstruction of Iraq after the fall of Saddam. The banner is just the icing on the cake.

As far as dodging is concerned, he doesn't dodge, he illegally claims executive privilege and refuses to answer, or let anyone else answer. You're using the the premise that neither the senate or house will press the issue harder, lest it become known what most of them are all about ... probably the truth there.

Well, that's dodging too. Not necessarily "dodge ball rules," he's getting hit with the ball... but somehow it fails to knock him out. For someone as goofy as Bush is portrayed to be, he should have been easy pickings. Instead, he's won two elections, and managed to fend off any real attacks of impeachment.

As an american, I am not only embarrassed by having this man as my president, I'm disgusted that Bush has put his faith, (and our country), in the hands of Big Oil and Big Government, while every day our dollar dies a slow death.

Well, I don't know how true that really is. I personally don't buy the whole "war for oil" line... and don't see any opposition candidates pushing for "smaller government."

As for the dollar, I'm not overly surprised that it's sliding... although, I don't know how much can really be blamed on Bush. The dollar started to slide BEFORE he got into office (after the internet bubble burst), and then once 9/11 happened, I expected the dollar to fall off the map. Instead, the economy boomed, with record high stock prices.

But Bush, just like Clinton before him, has so little to really do with these prices, I can't really praise or blame him (them) for any of it. Really, they're just along for the ride.

And while high oil prices currently are going to continue to really hurt us (and the world), other than dissolving these public companies, and absorbing oil as a government property (like the mail), I'm not sure what the government can realistically do.]]>http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q17http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q17politics <![CDATA[shep182 @ 7/17/2008 2:38:52 PM]]>« ImNotBlue : I'll tell you what the real issue is. I just don't like to see these endless attacks, with no other solution put forth.

If you're going to be on the offensive all the time, you've got to have something to back it up. "He's terrible!" only works for so long, before I ask, "Okay, but what makes you so great?"I can see that... if I were only touting "Bush sucks" at every turn without any kind of reference... this would be the "hating" you refer to ... However... pointing out the poor dealings, bad decisions and outright lies of this administration doesn't fall under that description... as far as a solution is concerned... Nanci Pelosi in all her wig-wearing wisdom took that off the table... no impeachment... besides... the republicans in the house/senate will make sure that doesnt happen anyway... most ... not because they dont AGREE that it should be done, but because he's a fellow Republican and they cant have those.... oh .. whats the catch phrase of the hour... "cool-aid drinking democrats" ganging up on one of our their own...

The evedence against this administration is incontrovertable... and it just keeps coming... and so long as it keeps coming, I will keep posting it...

You say you are sick of the spin and hype against this administration and we should stick to the truth.. which is "Bad enough"... I'm really interested in what you mean by "the truth" if what we have been discussing isn't it... I dont say this as argumenative statement, I'm really, honestly intrigued on any faults you would point out ... perhaps they may help my perspective...

OH... an just for the record... what makes me so great is i'm an honest upstanding member of my community... I will always lend a helping hand, without expecting anything in return... I do not lie, cheat or steal for personal gain... I am far from perfect, but if i DO make a mistake, I will be the first to admit it and do my best to make amends... that... and I mix a KILLER martini...]]>http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q16http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q16politics <![CDATA[siennablue @ 7/17/2008 1:53:45 PM]]>« ImNotBlue:I just don't understand why the haters can't use the truth against him. That's damning enough! But they have to keep spinning and distorting, and throwing absolutely everything they can think of at him. And the more he dodges, the weaker the arguments seem.I can't for the life of me think what you could like about him, from what you know about him. We do know that he was irresponsible enough to have been accused of being a drug and alcohol abuser, and Bush is the only major presidential candidate who has not answered the question about whether he has ever used cocaine. What he did say was "I've told the people of this country that, over 20 years ago, I made some mistakes when I was younger. I've learned from those mistakes" ... While this understandable among the general population, I would not consider it among my list of things that qualify him to be a Governor, and should certainly disqualify him to be president of the U.S.

Another thing we know about him is, he''s "smart mouth", just like McCain has been for his entire life ... the class-clown, the wisecracker, the backsliding smart ass who declared "Mission Accomplished" over 5 years ago, heralded by a giant banner strung across the deck of the USS Abraham Lincoln. After shifting explanations, the White House eventually said the "Mission Accomplished" phrase referred to the carrier's crew completing their 10-month mission, not the military completing its mission in Iraq.

As far as dodging is concerned, he doesn't dodge, he illegally claims executive privilege and refuses to answer, or let anyone else answer. You're using the the premise that neither the senate or house will press the issue harder, lest it become known what most of them are all about ... probably the truth there.

As an american, I am not only embarrassed by having this man as my president, I'm disgusted that Bush has put his faith, (and our country), in the hands of Big Oil and Big Government, while every day our dollar dies a slow death.]]>http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q15http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q15politics <![CDATA[ImNotBlue @ 7/17/2008 12:39:59 PM]]>« shep182 : I concur... Blue seems seems like a very educated, knowledgable person, except when it comes to the current administration... I hold him in a high respect for his love of good cartoons and an ability to voice his opinion without resorting to impudence or vulgarity (even when I disagree)... I just dont understand how anyone can still back these guys if they have 2 brain cells to rub together...I'll tell you what the real issue is. I just don't like to see these endless attacks, with no other solution put forth.

If you're going to be on the offensive all the time, you've got to have something to back it up. "He's terrible!" only works for so long, before I ask, "Okay, but what makes you so great?"]]>http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q14http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q14politics <![CDATA[ImNotBlue @ 7/17/2008 12:37:38 PM]]>« siennablue : ha ha, The only thing I really care about is that GWB is remembered as stupid enough to think that letting reprehensible, warmongering, planet-killing, constitution-changing criminals control the presidential office of the U.S.... will be tolerated by us.

Other than your love for all things bush, you seem a very knowledgeable person. I just don't understand it.I don't love all things Bush... I just don't hate him either.

Some people, seem to let their hate cloud their judgment. They see the man as such a buffoon, that they get angry at remembering he won two elections, and has been able to dodge (without any serious consequences, like impeachment) everything they've thrown at him.

I just don't understand why the haters can't use the truth against him. That's damning enough! But they have to keep spinning and distorting, and throwing absolutely everything they can think of at him. And the more he dodges, the weaker the arguments seem.

It's like a boxing match, where the fighter has landed a few solid blows, but failed to know his opponent down. Now he's taking little shots here and there, trying to get something when the ref isn't watching... but all its doing is making him look more tired and desperate. It's time to move onto the next fight.]]>http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q13http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q13politics <![CDATA[ImNotBlue @ 7/17/2008 12:32:26 PM]]>« shep182 : Its not a question of who leaked the name... its a question of who was INVOLVED... there is no question that Richard Armitage leaked Plame's name to Robert Novak, but he also used Karl Rove as a secondary source to verifiy the info... not only that, there is the testimony by "Scooter" Libby...

"In grand jury testimony played at his trial, Libby acknowledged he told the FBI early in the Plame probe that "it's possible" he spoke to Cheney about whether to share information with reporters about Wilson's wife."

Wow... so that incriminates BOTH Karl Rove and Cheeny... in a felony no less... but this isn't worthy of investigation? Everyone realizes that the current administration will roll out the rest of its term without impeachment, but there is no statute of limitations on treason. This case... like the uncountable scandals of this administration is far from "over"...Well, an interesting point. However, I don't really think you can build a case around Libby's MAY or MAY NOT have quote, "he spoke to Cheney about whether to share information with reporters about Wilson's wife."

That don't really implicate anything... just suggests that they knew who Plame was. It does not, however, suggest that they leaked anything, as the information only says they "spoke about what to do." They could have decided to keep quiet... or they could have decided to go and tell the world... Libby's statement doesn't make that clear... and we can't really make that assumption.]]>http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q12http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q12politics <![CDATA[siennablue @ 7/17/2008 12:30:57 PM]]>« shep182 : I concur... Blue seems seems like a very educated, knowledgable personlol ... no, I'm blue ... he's knotblue.]]>http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q11http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q11politics <![CDATA[shep182 @ 7/17/2008 11:59:36 AM]]>« siennablue : ha ha, The only thing I really care about is that GWB is remembered as stupid enough to think that letting reprehensible, warmongering, planet-killing, constitution-changing criminals control the presidential office of the U.S.... will be tolerated by us.

Other than your love for all things bush, you seem a very knowledgeable person. I just don't understand it.I concur... Blue seems seems like a very educated, knowledgable person, except when it comes to the current administration... I hold him in a high respect for his love of good cartoons and an ability to voice his opinion without resorting to impudence or vulgarity (even when I disagree)... I just dont understand how anyone can still back these guys if they have 2 brain cells to rub together...]]>http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q10http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q10politics <![CDATA[siennablue @ 7/17/2008 10:59:14 AM]]>« ImNotBlue:I know there are a lot of people who want to write the Bush memoir as nasty as possible… so they keep trying to alter events, and change history. But this isn't one of those cases. The controversy is over. Move along already.ha ha, The only thing I really care about is that GWB is remembered as stupid enough to think that letting reprehensible, warmongering, planet-killing, constitution-changing criminals control the presidential office of the U.S.... will be tolerated by us.

Other than your love for all things bush, you seem a very knowledgeable person. I just don't understand it.]]>http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q9http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q9politics <![CDATA[shep182 @ 7/17/2008 10:46:27 AM]]>« ImNotBlue : I think ya'll are forgetting something… that being, of course, that we already know who the leaker was. It was not Karl Rove, it was not Cheney, it was not George W. Bush. It was Richard Amitage. The story is over… the case is solved.

The only reason people keep dragging this on, is because they feel they can score some sort of political points with it, and use it to impeach Bush. Both are fairytales, because the American public doesn't care enough about this story to "win" anyone anything… and with Bush out of office in a few months, there isn't enough time to put together anything at all!

I know there are a lot of people who want to write the Bush memoir as nasty as possible… so they keep trying to alter events, and change history. But this isn't one of those cases. The controversy is over. Move along already.Its not a question of who leaked the name... its a question of who was INVOLVED... there is no question that Richard Armitage leaked Plame's name to Robert Novak, but he also used Karl Rove as a secondary source to verifiy the info... not only that, there is the testimony by "Scooter" Libby...

"In grand jury testimony played at his trial, Libby acknowledged he told the FBI early in the Plame probe that "it's possible" he spoke to Cheney about whether to share information with reporters about Wilson's wife."

Wow... so that incriminates BOTH Karl Rove and Cheeny... in a felony no less... but this isn't worthy of investigation? Everyone realizes that the current administration will roll out the rest of its term without impeachment, but there is no statute of limitations on treason. This case... like the uncountable scandals of this administration is far from "over"...]]>http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q8http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q8politics <![CDATA[ImNotBlue @ 7/16/2008 11:29:30 PM]]>« PulsisX : It's like complaining about OJ going golfing while he looks for "the real killer". (Try looking in the mirror next time you shave OJ!!)

I remember way back when Bush said he would do whatever it took to find out who was responsible for the leak. HAHA what a kidder I can't believe people fell for that one.

« siennablue : IMO, people should never forget that Bush has let himself be controlled by a treacherous staff who were supposed to help him in his promise to America, when he took the oath of office.

« DerAlt : Sure, let's forget any of this happened. That way it will pave the way to elect someone who will give us more years of Bush-like incompetance.

« shep182 : Yes... forget about it... just like everything Clinton did... I mean that was what?... 7-15 years ago right?

I think ya'll are forgetting something… that being, of course, that we already know who the leaker was. It was not Karl Rove, it was not Cheney, it was not George W. Bush. It was Richard Amitage. The story is over… the case is solved.

The only reason people keep dragging this on, is because they feel they can score some sort of political points with it, and use it to impeach Bush. Both are fairytales, because the American public doesn't care enough about this story to "win" anyone anything… and with Bush out of office in a few months, there isn't enough time to put together anything at all!

I know there are a lot of people who want to write the Bush memoir as nasty as possible… so they keep trying to alter events, and change history. But this isn't one of those cases. The controversy is over. Move along already.]]>http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q7http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q7politics <![CDATA[shep182 @ 7/16/2008 10:48:59 PM]]>« ImNotBlue : People are still talking about this nonsense?

Yeesh... let’s move along folks, it's done and over. Come on already. Yes... forget about it... just like everything Clinton did... I mean that was what?... 7-15 years ago right?]]>http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q6http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q6politics <![CDATA[DerAlt @ 7/16/2008 9:16:32 PM]]>http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q5http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q5politics <![CDATA[siennablue @ 7/16/2008 7:17:26 PM]]>« ImNotBlue : People are still talking about this nonsense?IMO, people should never forget that Bush has let himself be controlled by a treacherous staff who were supposed to help him in his promise to America, when he took the oath of office.]]>http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q4http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q4politics <![CDATA[PulsisX @ 7/16/2008 4:49:35 PM]]>« ImNotBlue : People are still talking about this nonsense?

Yeesh... let’s move along folks, it's done and over. Come on already.It's like complaining about OJ going golfing while he looks for "the real killer". (Try looking in the mirror next time you shave OJ!!)

I remember way back when Bush said he would do whatever it took to find out who was responsible for the leak. HAHA what a kidder I can't believe people fell for that one.]]>http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q3http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q3politics <![CDATA[ImNotBlue @ 7/16/2008 4:37:27 PM]]>
Yeesh... let’s move along folks, it's done and over. Come on already.]]>http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q2http://www.plime.com/politics/l/68962/1/rss2_0.rss#q2politics