Comments: 16 Score: [-] 45 [+].
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Posted: 1 year ago by belvario:
I keep wondering why this story, which McCain himself doesn't deny, isn't more widely circulated. I grew up in Washington, DC and I know exactly the kind of spoiled child of insider priviledge McCain was - I went to school with his type. They love to play-act as underdogs while spending daddy's money.
Maverick my a**. You can't be the grandson of an admiral and son of the Navy Liaison to the Senate and grow up an outsider, sorry.
Score: [-] 35 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by JoshSF49:
I downvoted this because I think it's crap.
If *anything* resembling this was posted against Obama, it would be downvoted into oblivion.
This is one person's narrative point of view (which means he stretches the truth and sometimes lies) to get his point across.
Maybe McCain is a spoiled brat. But he *is* a Maverick in that he does reach across the aisle.
McCain-Feingold? McCain-Leiberman?
McCain may have voted with Bush 90% of the time. Considering Bush is not a true conservative, it means that McCain votes moderate 90% of the time.
But when we look at Obama's record, he voted with the Democrats 95% of the time. Real change? Not Obama.
Score: [-] 9 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by belvario:
« JoshSF49 : I downvoted this because I think it's crap.
If *anything* resembling this was posted against Obama, it would be downvoted into oblivion.
This is one person's narrative point of view (which means he stretches the truth and sometimes lies) to get his point across.
Maybe McCain is a spoiled brat. But he *is* a Maverick in that he does reach across the aisle.
McCain-Feingold? McCain-Leiberman?
McCain may have voted with Bush 90% of the time. Considering Bush is not a true conservative, it means that McCain votes moderate 90% of the time.
But when we look at Obama's record, he voted with the Democrats 95% of the time. Real change? Not Obama. Have you actually read the article?
- The man is the son and grandson of consummate Washington insiders (fact, he doesn't deny that and it wouldn't do any good if he did because... it's true).
- He's pretty clear in his own autobiography that he wanted very badly to follow in his family's footsteps (and become another Washington insider).
- He used to campaign in Arizona on his Washington insider connections *as a positive thing* (verifiable, just go back and look at his campaign materials for Senator).
- He has flip-flopped on a host of issues (detailed in the article, check them out for yourself).
- And of course, he voted with President Bush 90% of the time, as has been noted over and over. Voting with Bush is not change - it's what we've had for 8 years, and look where we are. I don't want 90% of where we are right now.
As you note, if he had voted further to the right (out of the populist mainstream of the party), he might have been some kind of maverick, anyway - but he didn't. Or if he had broken ranks, opposed the party's populist majority and sided with Democrats more often against the President. However, he voted with the quasi-moderate Republican populist bloc pretty much down the line. Explain again how that makes him a maverick... still not seeing it, sorry...
Score: [-] 46 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by ImNotBlue:
« belvario : Have you actually read the article?
- The man is the son and grandson of consummate Washington insiders (fact, he doesn't deny that and it wouldn't do any good if he did because... it's true).
- He's pretty clear in his own autobiography that he wanted very badly to follow in his family's footsteps (and become another Washington insider).
- He used to campaign in Arizona on his Washington insider connections *as a positive thing* (verifiable, just go back and look at his campaign materials for Senator). So the reason he's not a "maverick" is because he came from a political family? What about the fact that after he had been captured, and they found out who he was... he REFUSED to be released, until the rest of his troop were released.
Just because "you know" some people who were like that... doesn't mean "everyone" was like that. That's stereotyping.
Yes, he used his connections to help him... isn't that called "networking," and what everyone does to help get them a job?
- He has flip-flopped on a host of issues (detailed in the article, check them out for yourself).
Like every politician before and after McCain. However, on his core issues, he has held firm... even when the rest of the party didn't agree.
- And of course, he voted with President Bush 90% of the time, as has been noted over and over. Voting with Bush is not change - it's what we've had for 8 years, and look where we are. I don't want 90% of where we are right now.
That's just silly. Yes, he's a Republican, so he's going to vote with Bush. But he also has many more years of experience and voting record than just the past 8 years. Obama has the most liberal record in the Senate, but it's only 2 years long... and mostly just "present."
The percentage means nothing... look at the issues, look at the bills, look at the votes. Anything less than that is just sloganeering, in an attempt to confuse the public.
As you note, if he had voted further to the right (out of the populist mainstream of the party), he might have been some kind of maverick, anyway - but he didn't. Or if he had broken ranks, opposed the party's populist majority and sided with Democrats more often against the President. However, he voted with the quasi-moderate Republican populist bloc pretty much down the line. Explain again how that makes him a maverick... still not seeing it, sorry...
Sided with the "quasi-moderate Republicans..." HE WAS THE MODERATE REPUBLICAN! He was the leader of that group, and that's why those on the right and far-right are worried about him, and why the Democrats speak so positively about him!
He's a maverick because he went against Bush policies when it was unpopular, and when it earned him scorn in his own party. Immigration, torture, Gitmo, etc. Major issues where he was outspoken, and against the President. Even on issues where he eventually voted with the President, he was often against him. Issues like troop levels, where McCain had pushed for more and criticized Bush strategy.
Besides, maverick was not a name he gave to himself... it's a name the press gave him, to explain his outspokenness, and refusal to go along with the party 100%. They regret it now because a maverick Republican is still not a Democrat or a liberal... but it was they who branded him "maverick."
If he wasn't a "maverick," and is so far right as you seem to imply... why did Joe Biden suggest he run with John Kerry as VP in 2004?
Score: [-] -7 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by ImNotBlue:
« JoshSF49 : I downvoted this because I think it's crap.
If *anything* resembling this was posted against Obama, it would be downvoted into oblivion. Big DUH. This is Plime... where everyone is entitled to an opinion! You can have the opinion that Obama is going to be the best President ever... and you can have the opinion that the best President ever is going to be Obama. See... variety!
This is one person's narrative point of view (which means he stretches the truth and sometimes lies) to get his point across.
And makes stuff up, or accepts someone's version of the "truth," despite any real evidence. Hearsay would be a nice way to put it... gross exaggeration to make a political point by a biased hack with not journalistic respect, would be another.
Maybe McCain is a spoiled brat.
Can we then kick out anyone related to the "Kenney"?
But when we look at Obama's record, he voted with the Democrats 95% of the time. Real change? Not Obama.
Facts... equal comparison... bah. Come on, that's not fair. Obama is so dreamy... who cares what he really believes?
*sigh*
Score: [-] 29 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by smarty1052:
« ImNotBlue : So the reason he's not a "maverick" is because he came from a political family? What about the fact that after he had been captured, and they found out who he was... he REFUSED to be released, until the rest of his troop were released. They said that offer was presented to a number of the soldiers there(somoewhere around 600) and it was packed in with the fact that you had to make an anti-american statement, that's why everyone that was there turned it down. what about the fact that he did give up more information than anyone else.. including who is father was and how many missions he had been on and the target of his last mission, the name of his ship?
I did learn something though.. I thought that after Hanoi he was so severely injured that his action career was done which explains why he cant lift his arms and stuff.. I didn't know he crashed yet another plane and messed his arms and face up in that crash after he was back already.
Score: [-] 17 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by DerAlt:
« smarty1052 : They said that offer was presented to a number of the soldiers there(somoewhere around 600) and it was packed in with the fact that you had to make an anti-american statement, that's why everyone that was there turned it down. what about the fact that he did give up more information than anyone else.. including who is father was and how many missions he had been on and the target of his last mission, the name of his ship?
I did learn something though.. I thought that after Hanoi he was so severely injured that his action career was done which explains why he cant lift his arms and stuff.. I didn't know he crashed yet another plane and messed his arms and face up in that crash after he was back already. He "crashed" 5 planes. Three of them under questionable circumstances. (Crashed is in quotes because one of the five was hit by rocket fire while on deck. That's one of the two not questionable.)
Score: [-] 39 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by ImNotBlue:
« smarty1052 : They said that offer was presented to a number of the soldiers there(somoewhere around 600) and it was packed in with the fact that you had to make an anti-american statement, that's why everyone that was there turned it down. what about the fact that he did give up more information than anyone else.. including who is father was and how many missions he had been on and the target of his last mission, the name of his ship? Just because they (allegedly... not sure where that info is coming from... from other soldiers, okay... from the Vietnamese who were there, no thank you... I'll take our guy's word over their word any day) offered it to a number of soldiers, it makes McCain's sacrifice less? Who cares? They're all heroes!
The man had been beaten and broken... and you're disappointed that he gave up some useless information? Sorry if I accept that as him doing the best he could, as him doing better than you or I could, and for still willing to endure the torture.
I did learn something though.. I thought that after Hanoi he was so severely injured that his action career was done which explains why he cant lift his arms and stuff.. I didn't know he crashed yet another plane and messed his arms and face up in that crash after he was back already.
So he had been beaten and broken... and yet tried to serve again... and you see that as a bad thing? Most people in that situation would have tried to get as far away as possible... and would have certainly been treated honorably if they had!
« DerAlt : He "crashed" 5 planes. Three of them under questionable circumstances. (Crashed is in quotes because one of the five was hit by rocket fire while on deck. That's one of the two not questionable.) Maybe you can argue he was a bad pilot... but since he doesn't actually have to fly Air Force One, I'm okay with that.
Score: [-] -15 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by belvario:
« ImNotBlue : If he wasn't a "maverick," and is so far right as you seem to imply... why did Joe Biden suggest he run with John Kerry as VP in 2004? I never said he was "so far right" - in fact, I said he was a Bush quasi-moderate. Which is exactly what we don't need for 4 more years.
The only reason "reaching across the aisle" is even remotely a "maverick" position is because of the damage Bush did to the spirit of bipartisanship in Washington. It ought to be everyone's position in Congress, regardless of party affiliation.
Score: [-] 0 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by ImNotBlue:
« belvario : I never said he was "so far right" - in fact, I said he was a Bush quasi-moderate. Which is exactly what we don't need for 4 more years.
The only reason "reaching across the aisle" is even remotely a "maverick" position is because of the damage Bush did to the spirit of bipartisanship in Washington. It ought to be everyone's position in Congress, regardless of party affiliation. Really? You're blaming Bush for ruining bi-partisanship? Really?
Did you not see Pelosi last week before the bailout vote? Was that her trying to reach across the isle?
Most people in congress don't care about being bi-partisan... and if they did, they'd have a better chance of actually getting things done. But since it's "staying in office," is their goal... actually accomplishments aren't all that important.
McCain reached across the isle more than other politicians on both sides. He has been commended for his efforts by folks on BOTH sides. In terms of the Senate... ALL the Senate, his willingness to compromise makes him a maverick.
Score: [-] -15 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by belvario:
« ImNotBlue : Really? You're blaming Bush for ruining bi-partisanship? Really?
Did you not see Pelosi last week before the bailout vote? Was that her trying to reach across the isle?
Most people in congress don't care about being bi-partisan... and if they did, they'd have a better chance of actually getting things done. But since it's "staying in office," is their goal... actually accomplishments aren't all that important.
McCain reached across the isle more than other politicians on both sides. He has been commended for his efforts by folks on BOTH sides. In terms of the Senate... ALL the Senate, his willingness to compromise makes him a maverick. The spirit of bipartisanship was quashed during Bush's first term, when the Republican majority in both houses had the bully position *and* the support of the White House.
I have never argued that McCain wasn't able to reach across the aisle, as he has done. It's a pretty sad commentary however that we now consider this to be a "maverick" position.
Score: [-] 7 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by belvario:
« DerAlt : He "crashed" 5 planes. Three of them under questionable circumstances. (Crashed is in quotes because one of the five was hit by rocket fire while on deck. That's one of the two not questionable.) Now now, he only really crashed 3 planes - the other two were not his fault! One was friendly fire while on deck, and the other was his combat shootdown. Any one of the other three, however, would have cost him his wings had he not been daddy's boy. This pisses off my father-in-law, who is a retired Air Force bird colonel, no end.
Score: [-] 38 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by smarty1052:
« ImNotBlue : Just because they (allegedly... not sure where that info is coming from... from other soldiers, okay... from the Vietnamese who were there, no thank you... I'll take our guy's word over their word any day) offered it to a number of soldiers, it makes McCain's sacrifice less? Who cares? They're all heroes!
The man had been beaten and broken... and you're disappointed that he gave up some useless information? Sorry if I accept that as him doing the best he could, as him doing better than you or I could, and for still willing to endure the torture.
So he had been beaten and broken... and yet tried to serve again... and you see that as a bad thing? Most people in that situation would have tried to get as far away as possible... and would have certainly been treated honorably if they had!
Maybe you can argue he was a bad pilot... but since he doesn't actually have to fly Air Force One, I'm okay with that. i'm not saying that it was a bad thing that he tried to serve again.. I'm just commenting on the fact that he brags about how his wounds and everything came from being a POW but after he returned he was well enough to walk out on his own 2 feet and even pass a medical exam to be able to fly again.. if his shoulders were messed up maybe they should've have let him fly that last plane that he crashed, or if the crash was what injured his shoulders then dont blame it on the POW camp.
and the quote I was reffering to was what the guy that wrot ethe article quoted from the other soldier that was held there with McCain not the Vietnamese. I wouldnt trust anything from the vietnamese either. How it said the other soldiers being held there were tortured the same if not worst than him but they gave nothing, or what the military allows them to give up. Like the guy said he put himself b4 country when most of the other POW's put country b4 pain and self. They should be the heroes. the ones taht weren't given medical treatment and still went on to serve after being released and coming back. Like the one guy that went to the middle east to serve and McCain chose to go to Rio to get "laid"
Plus he comes back after 5years all scarred up from war and his wife waited for him and sticks by him.. his wife gets in an accident and isn't so pretty anymore and he drops her cold for cindy.. I'm suprised any women still vote for him.
Score: [-] 0 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by smarty1052:
Plus McCain finished at the bottom of his class at the academy basically. He shouldn't have even been allowed to graduate.
Score: [-] 17 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by JoshSF49:
« belvario : Have you actually read the article?
However, he voted with the quasi-moderate Republican populist bloc pretty much down the line. Explain again how that makes him a maverick... still not seeing it, sorry... Considering Bush is a *moderate*, it is not abnormal for McCain to be voting with him.
I read a lot of the article, but couldn't stomach my way through the rest. It was one smear after another, all based on opinion.
Score: [-] 0 [+].
Posted: 1 year ago by gammerus:
« JoshSF49 : Considering Bush is a *moderate*, it is not abnormal for McCain to be voting with him.
I read a lot of the article, but couldn't stomach my way through the rest. It was one smear after another, all based on opinion. You can keep calling Bush a moderate, but that won't make it true.
Score: [-] 17 [+].
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