Part 2
Debunking the Free Marketeers

And yet... it has happened. A lot.
It must be magic.
(talking about businesses in general, before anybody jumps on me)

no.

You can say Jesus. He has a f**king name.
Besides, only the muslims refer to him as a prophet.

Insightful read. Since it is a biased site, I'll take it with a grain of salt, but it wasn't propaganda.
Still not convinced that a universal health care system will work here in the states, especially a mandatory one for all. I've heard people from other countries complain about them.
But always good to read the other side and see their strong points.

She's got her info a bit wrong here - not all provinces even charge monthly premiums. As a Saskatchewan resident, I don't pay a premium for my health care. It's completely free!

Even though our system has it's flaws, I quite like it (though I'm glad Calvert's free drug plan got kaiboshed). I could not imagine worrying about paying every time I went to a doctor. I would probably almost never go if I had to pay a bunch, and I wouldn't be so healthy if that was the case.

One difference between America and Canada as far as health care goes is population differences

Canada has estimated 33,180,600 people

United States has estimated 303,356,000 people
California has estimated 36,457,549 people. That means more people live in California than in Canada.

That is a big difference. Yes more people means more potential tax revenue, but that is blown away by the increased services that would be needed. Not to mention the vast number of people who don't pay taxes.

Also there is the difference in density and in the location of the people. I'm not sure but it is probably easier to provide medical service when so much of Canada's population is in just a few cities.

Canada has one of the largest economies in the world. Its relatively low population figures makes for a nice per-capita level. It is a net exporter of energy, has huge amounts of natural resources. Canada has a heck of a lot going for it.

Resources that makes it easier to provide health coverage than for the US to.

Still something must be done.

Health coverage has just gotten too expensive. Supply and demand, market forces works fine to control pricing for most things. Something like medical care is a different matter. When you have to have it, they can charge whatever they like.

Health coverage pricing has zero to do with the wholesale cost of the service. That is the problem. Providing universal coverage is difficult because the price is too high.

Working out price controls is the difficult challenge.

We may b*tch about wait times in Canada(when your sick a month feels like FOREVER but really its not that long) but the thing is we ALWAYS get what we need sooner or later.

No insurance agent, who's job it is to find a reason to deny coverage,EVER gets to say "no". No one dies in an emergency room cuz someone is trying to figure out if they're insured. No one has to chose weather to eat/pay rent OR get they're broken arm set.

I personaly wait about a month to see my Rhuemitologist when I need a shot but without Universal health care I couldn't afford it if I saved for 6 months so what does it matter that I could make the appointment for the next day?

So many myths revealed, and misinformation told - why is it so hard for someone just tell the truth?

... I've never complained about waits, but then again I've never been too unhealthy.

When I do need a doctor, though, I don't mind waiting a bit more because it's free. I'd rather wait than pay.

Oh wow, I didn't know we broke the 33 million mark! Yay us!

Out of sheer curiosity, do you know where I could find the statistics for the number of Americans who don't pay taxes? I'm just curious to compare it to Canada.

I never go to the doctor. Last time I was at a hospital was when I busted my head open and had to get stapled back up. $1000 + for ambulance another $1500 + for everything else that was like 7 years ago. PRICEY! ... and they didn't turn on the lights and siren :(

Of course both have large numbers that don't pay taxes. Some legally and some illegally.

I was just saying that the larger population base doesn't mean a sufficiently larger income base to support universal health coverage at the current price of service.

I, for one, would welcome a system like Canada's. My husband and I have health problems, are uninsurable, and are poor because of our health costs--medication is over $900 per month. We don't have any excess income, in fact, sometimes it's down to whether to eat or have our medication. Seeing the doctor is out of the question, even if we are ill. Can't afford it.

I think you misunderstood my question. I was wondering if you knew of an official census or stats website.

I agree that a larger population does not equal a larger tax base.

We see this even between provinces. I was just looking to compare the US to the provinces - just to satisfy my personal curiosity.

One of the best articles I've read, ever.

^^That's really the bottom line.

In Ontario, we don't have a monthly premium either. Prescriptions are your only worry, unless your insured. I have insurance at work, but I dont remember ever signing anything. I have a card that takes care of it all. Much simpler than you'd think.

I don't know how you could count them. I don't think anyone would check the box that says "are you guilty of tax evasion?" LOL

Excellent read!

In the US about 1/3 of all filers have no tax liability.

You know, if the US passes a social healthcare program (call it what you want, taking something from everyone to hopefully benefit everyone is socialism, regardless of what negative connotations that may have) and if it regulates prescription drug prices, all the drug companies will simply move to some other (developing) country to avoid heavier regulation. That would mean a lot of jobs gone.

Everyone has already made points I would have. I only have a comment now.

I had a sinus infection. I know I need Amox. Antibiotics. The perscription is only about $11. But in order to get it, I need a doctor to write the scrip, which will cost me $100 for the visit. Total and utter bulls**t. This is why people have to hoard medicine.

Comparing the amount of people in California and Canada is not a valid argument. If a person goes to a public hospital emergency room, doctors/nurses MUST treat the patient. Then they get sent a bill that that can't afford, and likely won't pay until it is already sent to a collections agency. That is the problem.

all you really need to think about is Im doing well with my taxes the way they are, and I practically pay nothing for any type of health care. Spout all the socialist woes and blame all the non taxpaying people you want, you can't beat that.

And the article seemed pretty honest to me, I don't know, I've only been enjoying health care for about 28 years, perhaps I need more time to study the intracicies of the system.

And public health care isn't bad for eficiency, nothings perfect, but I gaurentee more of the money going into it goes directly to care and supplies, I seriously doubt Privatized health care can make that claim.

Not to nitpick Z, but how did you get a diagnosis of a sinus infection without seeing a doctor?

If you did see one I'm sure he would telephone that scrip for you.